mikethair
Forum Replies Created
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My approach was a lot simpler for an oil I produced and exported globally 2006-2023 under my brand Indochine Natural. It was a formulation of carrier oils (Jojoba, Sesame, Olive, Coconut, and Sunflower) with an essential oil fragrance. And no synthetics.
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Best to direct this query to your local cosmetics regulatory authority. And in posts like this, always a good idea to mention your location.
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My approach is completely different. I have formulated and produced since 2006 a body wash by saponifying a range of plant oils. And by modifying my saponification calculations, a small amount of the oils remain un-saponified, thus achieving a similar effect you are talking about.
I manufactured and exported my body wash range globally, plus a range of Private Label body wash. These were very popular products and a great money earner.
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It is an issue of aesthetics. Your aesthetic is probably not the same as mine, so I’m reluctant to make recommendations. I like to redefine a category and set new standards. This elevates your customers to a higher level of existence, as well as price. Packaging is important in this context.
And my approach is to search online for suppliers, and for those that appeal I ask for samples. And once you have a sample in hand you can appreciate the aesthetic and decide if it matches your brand.
In short, there are no shortcuts.
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Yep, I’ve been there, done that during the 20 years I owned skin care manufacturing facilities in Viet Nam and Malaysia. My approach? Set up a series of Excels and meticulously record the results of various ingredient combinations. Over time, the ingredients will reveal themselves. Then once you have some conclusions, field test these on potential or current customers.
And this process can take some months. But the product outcomes will be worth it.
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From nothing, in 2006, I co-founded two skincare manufacturing factories, which ran until 2023. And of course, we were always on the hunt for packaging globally.
Adding some context, my factories were located in Viet Nam and Malaysia, and 90% of our orders were produced for Private Label brands globally.
My advice is don’t limit yourself to U.S suppliers. They may not provide the quality or “look” for your brand. My approach was to continually aim to escape the ordinary.
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My only experience is with your option “C: 0.5% sodium soap of vegetable oil.” For about 20 years I manufactured and exported a cleanser made from saponified plant oils. But it very much depends on what plant oils you are saponifying, and how they are saponified. With our cleaning products, I spent two years perfecting the saponification process with lots of trials of the test batches before we went into full production in our two factories.
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Personally, I’d give this opportunity a miss. I’m all about producing quality, and products that escape the ordinary, and with these time constraints, it would be impossible. And saying “no” as a professional formulator is not an issue for me if it preserves my good reputation.
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Let’s talk Castile liquid soap.
We see a lot of liquid soap for sale these days by various brands. But too often they are not what they claim to be.
Most are modern syndets. A product made by combining different synthetic detergents. These fakes will often include a “natural” ingredient. Just for appearance’s sake.
Traditional Castile liquid is made using extra virgin olive oil. And they must not contain any added synthetic fragrances, colourings, or preservatives.
However, many factories, which are less likely to respect the traditions and the recipes, have flooded the world with their fake alternatives. They make these fakes with animal fat, sodium lauryl sulfate, and other synthetics.
And why are so many brands selling fake Castile liquid soap?
First, Castile is very popular.
Second, these fake Castile liquid soaps are cheap and easy to make. And when sold as a Castile soap, the profits are huge.
If you are a brand owner wanting to make genuine Castile liquid soap, I can show you how. I specialise in working remotely. I have shown businesses in Africa, SE Asia and Europe how to make Castile liquid soap.
Get in touch with me, and we can make a start. Email: mikethair@gmail.com
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Why add coconut milk?
The castile wash, because of its pH of around 9, would be self-preserving. And as long as the addition of coconut milk does not change the pH significantly, then it should be OK. But having said that, any product produced should the tested using standard GMP protocols.
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I’ve successfully produced shampoo bars in the past that were exported globally. But to me, a shampoo bar is simply a formulation saponifying a suitable combination of plant oils. And this worked for us, and the customers liked these bars.
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Why add niacinamide?
And when you say “fragrance” will you use synthetics or essential oils?
With my own manufacturing company I owned for about 20 years, we did a lot of body oils that we exported globally. And the key to sales is an attractive fragrance.
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No surprises here. In my case, I formulated and produced a liquid soap that was certainly very effective in removing grease. We exported this product globally from 2006.
And yes, soap is antibacterial.
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The process would very much depend on your location and the compliance requirements in place. Surely you have someone in your organisation who is on top of this. In my case, in 2006, I co-founded two skincare manufacturing factories, which ran until 2023. And among my staff, I appointed a QC Manager who took care of this.
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Then my advice would be to direct your inquiry in writing (email should be OK) to the cosmetics regulatory authority in Hawaii USA. The Chemists Corner in my opinion is not the place to have definitive answers on regulatory issues.
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Hi again Abu-Hafss,
“What I understand about your approach is that first we convert Oil into soap solution and then mix into the blend of the surfactants. Am I right?”
No, No, NO!! The saponified oil is the surfactant, and there is no requirement to dilute this surfactant or use other surfactants. FACT: LIQUID SOAP IS A SURFACTANT.
“Next, do we get the same benefits/results as what we get by adding oil to surfactants using emulsification?”
NO. I can’t understand why you would want to add oil to surfactants.
“Lastly, what are the advantages of your approach other than the cost of base would be much cheaper than the emulsifiers?”
The main approach is that there is no use of synthetics, which are a significant source of skin irritation. This is feedback from our customers over 20 years, many who had issues with the normal synthetic-based washes.
I suggest you study the process of producing liquid soap using whole plant oils via saponification.
You are welcome to email me directly at mikethair@gmail.com
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Hi Abdullah,
Good question.
We saponify the oil by adding a strong base. Chemically, it is a fairly simple reaction (strong base + water + oil). And therefore there is not any “suspension” of oil. Saponification produces a single phase of liquid soap.
Kind regards,
Dr Mike Thair
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Hi Abu-Hafss,
I’m not sure of your definition of “standard procedure,” but it is something I did for 17 years until my retirement.
And global brands such as Dr Bronner’s use saponification to produce various washes, and they use similar approaches. We call it ‘super-fatting” where some oil remains un-saponified to add a skin moisturising effect to the product.
And yes, many brands opt for using synthetics…..it’s a lot easier.
Kind regards,
Dr Mike Thair
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Yes, agree 100%. And this was always a stage in the production of the shampoo bars I produced and exported globally since 2006 in the two factories I co-founded which ran until 2023. I had set up a cure room that was temperature and humidity controlled.
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I would suggest using essential oils in place of synthetic fragrances. The oils are far more difficult to blend, but in my opinion, produce a better outcome and consumer satisfaction.
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Yes indeed, very important.
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I may be able to assist. mikethair@gmail.com
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I’m sorry, I don’t see any issue with what I have written.
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With respect, that’s why as a scientist I use the scientific name Eucalyptus citriodora so that there is no mistake.
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Thanks. That’s a great insight.