[mikethair]

I think that you may be overthinking this issue.

When I was running Indochine Natural (2006-2024) I formulated and produced similar olive oil/beeswax body salves for various Private Label clients globally. A lot of these issues of crystals forming in the product came down to the ratio of olive oil to beeswax. So lots of experimentation and rigorous Excel documentation of recipes and results. I cracked it after a few months.

And then my next worry was the exports going to various climates globally and the FedEx/DHL courier conditions between my factory and the wholesale buyer.

[mikethair]

In my humble opinion, far too complicated.

I started my company in 2006 and had two factories with exports globally and 90% Private Label revenue. And the product I formulated was called Hair Oil using just high quality plant oils with essential oils for fragrance.

And for me, it’s all about “trading down,” down to the local, the simple, the unrefined but raw and true.

Serum? Give me a break, it’s associated with blood.

[mikethair]

” it seems clear that it’s just plain hard to make good soap. Unlike synthetic shower gel or hand wash.”

Yes, but easy if you know how. I co-founded two factories producing artisan-made all-natural soap. We exported globally, and 90% of the exports were Private Label for various brands globally.

If you want to know more, please get in touch.

Dr Mike Thair

[mikethair]

For me, hand soap is best made the traditional way by saponifying carefully selected high-quality plant oils. The selection of oils defines the soap’s characteristics.

In 2006, I co-founded and operated two factories that produced traditional soap bars until 2024. I exported globally, at premium prices.

Synthetic soap is cheap.

[mikethair]

I may be able to help.

I’m an Australian who co-founded a skincare manufacturing company in Malaysia and Viet Nam from 2006 until 2023 when I retired and returned to Australia. I was responsible for the formulation and manufacture of products. We exported globally, and 90% of my business was Private Label for brands globally.

Dr Mike Thair

[mikethair]

It is all about the basic rules of fragrance formulation and the balance between top, middle and base notes. I have formulated skincare fragrances for 20+ years using high-quality essential oils, and have never had any problems.

But again, the basic principles need to be known and adhered to. Not something you can pick up in 10 minutes.

• This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  mikethair.

[mikethair]

As the Co-founder of Indochine Natural (2006 - 2023) I avoided the use of synthetic preservatives. I used ‘Hurdle Technology.’ This is because a growing number of consumers are questioning preservative safety.

Hurdle Technology intelligently combines different preservation factors. These will restrict microbial growth. But a qualified cosmetic scientist must apply it. And the production facility should have testing facilities. I qualified in both cases and built a dedicated physical chemistry and microbiology lab integrated with my factory in Malaysia and Ho Chi Minh City. I also employed a QC Manager.

Most important is the strict application of good manufacturing practice (GMP). Also, appropriate packaging and low water activity. Plus low or high pH values. These elements, when combined, can restrict microbial growth in cosmetic formulations. Also important is the need to formulate with non-chemical multifunctional antimicrobial ingredients. These include plant-derived essential oils and extracts.

Of course all of the products we produced were subject to laboratory cosmetic preservative efficacy testing. This checks that there is zero microbe growth.

Dr Mike Thair

Co-Founder Indochine Natural

[mikethair]

I manufactured shampoo bars (plus a lot of other skincare products) when I co-founded Indochine Natural in 2006 which ran until 2023. These shampoo bars were particularly popular with one of our Japanese wholesale customers and did well in Japan. I also did other Private Label shampoo bars for various brands globally.

I only used essential oils for fragrance, and the key was following the basic rules of fragrance formulation, and understanding the role of base, middle and top notes. It’s something I have done for nearly 30 years, and am still doing.

I developed and tested around six(6) or more fragrance blends that were tested and accepted by my Japanese wholesaler. This process took about nine (9) months which included soap bar curing for 30 days in a temp/humidity-controlled cure room (very important) and extensive consumer testing.

I should also mention that the basic soap bar formulation plays a role in retaining the fragrance and transferring it to the hair during washing.

Also worth noting is that if you blow dry your hair, you will not get much fragrance retention.

[mikethair]

Call me old fashioned, but to me a serum is simply a blend of oils applied to the skin to moisturise and hydrate. And if the correct oils are selected, they can do wonders for the skin.

And from your formulation, I only see one oil (Sunflower). The remaining ingredients are all synthetics.

From my experience as the co-founder of Indochine Natural in 2006, it’s these synthetics that cause a lot of skin problems. And as a result, the niche we focused on was all-natural skincare, including various formulations of skin oils. These sold amazing well globally, and I made good incomes from this product line.

So, this is just my comment, and I am sure many will disagree.

[mikethair]

Thanks

[mikethair]

I’m not quite sure what you trying to say with your statement:

“Actually, few allergens per each esential oil are identified; that’s why
updated lists or allergens include more essential oils as allergens. “

In my experience the allergens for each essential oil are identified in detail. And with modern advances in laboratory analytical equipment, it is continually improving.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  mikethair.

[mikethair]

My preference would always be to use high-quality essential oils as these are not affected by heat. But having said that, most chemists have challenges in formulating attractive essential oil blends so they revert to synthetic fragrances.

[mikethair]

Yes indeed. I have exactly the same memories of the 70s. I backpacked extensively through SE Asia. Those were the days!!!!

[mikethair]

My approach was a lot simpler for an oil I produced and exported globally 2006-2023 under my brand Indochine Natural. It was a formulation of carrier oils (Jojoba, Sesame, Olive, Coconut, and Sunflower) with an essential oil fragrance. And no synthetics.

[mikethair]

Yes, indeed, regulators may not have hands-on experience with preservation, but they are the regulators, and as a company, we jump through their hoops and place our products on their markets to generate company income. Basically, as a managing director, I would fail in my duties if I did not enter these markets once I had met all regulatory compliance requirements.

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by  mikethair.

[mikethair]

Agreed, and thanks for this….much appreciated.

[mikethair]

If you say that “Hurdle technology is not “intelligent”, it’s duct tape for microbiological failures at best.”, then from my side, it was good enough for our products to be accepted by cosmetic compliance authorities globally, including the EU and Japan, then I think that is good enough for any company.

When you say “Qualified cosmetic chemists,” are you suggesting I am not qualified? On what basis do you make this assumption? I think that with a PhD, MSc, and BSc and 20 years of experience as a co-founder of two skincare manufacturing facilities, I might be qualified, but it’s only my humble opinion. And I choose to use Hurdle Technology. And we had no cases of “consumers rubbing E. coli, fungal infections, and bacteria soup all over their faces.” And yes, we had rigorous testing in place.

And your definition of essential oils as “unstandardized allergens with weak antimicrobial efficacy” is not one I have heard before. Like to back it up with some scientific literature?

And where have I said that EOs are preservatives?

And yes, we were GMP Certified, and we relied on third-party validation of our own lab testing, it’s all part of GMP compliance.

I would be very interested to learn more about your background, as I’m always willing to learn.

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by  mikethair.

[mikethair]

<div>For more on the “non-chemical multifunctional antimicrobial ingredients” I refer you to the follwinng article in the published literature:</div>

Chen, T., Chang, H. Deciphering trends in replacing preservatives in cosmetics intended for infants and sensitive population.
Sci Rep 14, 19053 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-024-69624-9

doi.org

Deciphering trends in replacing preservatives in cosmetics intended for infants and sensitive population - Scientific Reports

The present study aims to investigate the current trends in replacing conventional preservatives with multifunctional ingredients with antimicrobial properties for preservation of cosmetics for infants or sensitive population, to decrease their potential for contact dermatitis. We first reviewed the labels … Continue reading

[mikethair]

Yes indeed, and for those of us going down the path of natural/clean skincare, the only option is Hurdle. And yes, I agree 100%, that you do need a rigorous testing regime, and this is why I built an onsite testing laboratory and employed a QC to manage it.

Fact is that all-natural skincare is a significant sector these days, so my investment was worth it, especially coupled with my company’s GMP status.

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by  mikethair.

[mikethair]

These are words I and many others use regularly. I did not define them originally.

Try Google for definitions.

[mikethair]

Hi Perry,

Yes, you are correct. There was a global market for this product I formulated and produced, but it didn’t suit everyone. The prime reason for purchase was that customers wanted something that was free from synthetics.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  mikethair.

[mikethair]

Thanks for this historical insight, this is the first I have heard this.

[mikethair]

No.

[mikethair]

Hi Abdullah,

I produced and distributed this shampoo globally from 2006 until 2023. I also formulated and manufactured it as a Private Label for a few brands globally. It was a tremendously popular product, and even today, I receive enquiries for it.

[mikethair]

Hi ketchito,

The allergens for each essential oil are well documented, and not difficult to find. And when formulating an essential oil blend, these allergens are additive.

As a professional formulator, this is what I do, and take full responsibility for every formulation.