Mike_M
Forum Replies Created
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We definitely run into issues sometimes with studies. We have to transfer material from our containers and competitor containers to the non descript study containers. A lot of time it’s too much for us to fill by hand but too small to get a manufacturer to fill for us.
I’m talking in the 800-1200 units size.
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He added coconut oil at 2%
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Run in it in the chambers. I’ve done both and there’s correlation but it’s not a guarantee. Run on at room temperature and at elevated. You can easily run it yourself. I would take pH and viscosity readings at the minimum.
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We just use IPA
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haha not all that long ago I was taught dreamweaver in school, what a headache even for the most simplistic button click platform.
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You could probably find a packaging engineer to consult with for substantially less.
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We just had a quote done on this because we were looking at running a stability at a different temperature along with our own stability. The quote was $30,000 for 6 months of testing to give you an idea.
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No problem, usually the director can also guide you in what’s worth measuring or not.
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I would do as follows: Room temperature pulls at 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 12 months,24 months. 40C pulls at 1 month, 3 months,and 6 months. Freeze thaw, 40/-10C pulls every 2weeks for 6 weeks starting in the -10C. Then you have to tell them what they are lookingfor. Do they need sensory tests, analytical tests (are you making claims on actives or ingredients), micro challenge?
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The answer is that it really just depends. Check out ICH guidelines, but basically we do 40C for 6 months, room temperature for 2 years and freeze thaw for 6 weeks. If we run into issues with the 40C and we’re pressed to get a product out without waiting on the room temperature then we’ll run 30C and run that out. Like Perry mentioned you could do 45C instead of 40, it all depends. Some systems might crash at 45 that would be perfectly okay at 40 and the same goes for 30. Different accelerated tests will give you different time tables for shelf life. When I was doing innovation we did 50C, 4C and RT.
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I think @Belassi is right. We do a lot of tech scouting for competitors products and actually figured out for one product that 1/3 of their LOI was contained in one ingredient. There were things under 1% that would be added 5-20% traditionally and the reason behind this was they were using the mixture at <5%. If you look at the ingredients see if anything is unusually low in the list and it might be a combination of several things, then look around at the suppliers to see if those ingredients are contained in any one material they offer. Sometimes a hint is seeing a preservative kind of high on the LOI and then another one or two pretty low on there. Even some of the pigments we use come with BHT in the raw material.
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3 months stability testing at 40C gives you a year shelf life. 6 months at 40C gives you 2 years. So I suppose it depends on how long you need to guarantee shelf life for. I know our buyers want 18 months minimum but generally 2 1/2-3 years preferred.
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These are body, hand and foot lotions and creams. I think that’s an excellent idea, the Urea in higher percentages works great for desquamation and provides an almost instant softening effect. It’s hard to formulate more than 5% but we have had success getting it to the market at 20% so it’s doable. Just be careful with face, I would start at 5% to see if you can get your effect. Once you get above that you’ll run into sensitivity issues. My boss can’t come close to the 20% Urea lotion or her skin stings really bad.
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One of the benefits of doing temperature variations is that you can get an accelerated shelf life determination. So you can get a 2 year shelf life in 6 months testing instead of waiting the full 2 years to label it. This is beneficial to you as the seller but also from the buyers at the stores you want to sell. They want products with certain expiration periods.
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@Belassi the buffering is a pain, getting the right balance of lactid acid/Urea to get the product pH stable is not easy. We have a line based off this technology though so with some time and diligence it’s doable.
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Is it completely solved when you are batching? If even one crystal is not solved it will start to crystalize and build from there. Even if you cannot see it.
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I would have to agree @David08848 from a purely genetics standpoint it’s certainly possible, when looking at things that are linked to heritage usually that means the genes are simply closer together on the chromosome therefore they are more likely to be linked and less likely to mutate exclusively it’s certainly possible and over tens of thousands of years of evolution it’s highly likely that it would occur once in a while. Enough to market a product towards? Probably not but nonetheless it’s within the realm of possibility.
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Check The Handbook of Cosmetic Science and Technology there are several methods described for measuring skin moisture. Most commonly it is via TEWL
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It CAN, but it’s a bad idea. Of late there have been several instances of poorly preserved products causing all kinds of issues.
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I would recommend joining the SCC. It’s a fantastic network and there are tons of really great people to meet. There are tons of events, namely the IFSCC planned for this fall in Orlando. That would be a fantastic opportunity to meet these people. As Bob mentioned there are only about 40-50 active participants here. I have worked for two pretty large companies but unfortunately my experiences are limited to Caucasian and Asian body wash, shampoo, and skin care products. At the Expo you’ll likely have access to hundreds of folks and increase your chances greatly on making a connection. I know that I am really only interested in the science aspect and deal with the marketing because it’s necessary, Perhaps you could put together a pitch with your expertise and find somebody there with the chemical expertise that’s willing to invest. That would be a great partnership. Good luck!
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The problems that you would have no matter what is that your labeling would be off. I work for a company that is based outside of the US but work for the US subsidiary. We have products that claims, ingredients and all major parts would be legal in the US but we have chosen not to carry them here for whatever reason. If we find companies importing them for sale in the US we have to send a cease and desist because the labeling is not compliant and we could potentially run into issues. Even if we have nothing to do with them it would cost us resources having to prove such so we just nip it in the bud from the get go to prevent such issues. I would have a person familiar with US regulatory help you with the labels if you intend on selling across the border.
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Perry it’s not just cosmetics. I am actually very established in an alternate industry. I have accomplished more and have published far more and have a far better understanding than most yet I do only alright because I know that the market BS is just that and I refuse to sell people things that I find fundamentally useless. However, I am fully aware of my short comings regarding that side of the business which is why I choose not to pursue it as a full blown career.
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Eh I would be careful calling it a buzzword, we have had consumer groups come after us for specific hour claims. We had claim substantiation but without it we would have run into issues. I think “long lasting” you’d be okay but if you start getting specific, i.e. 24-48 hour protection, moisturizing make sure you have something to back that up.
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I would contact Hallstar and ask. They know their line better than anybody else and they have come through here before with some really great products.
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Lanolin alcohol. Experiment with it. Unfortunately I cannot give you ratios for trade secret purposes.