Microformulation
Forum Replies Created
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There is a lot more information on this topic in the Soap Making Facebook groups. One woman once claimed to have reduced her saponified soap to 7.5 but when challenged she could not repeat the process.
Pet shampoos using saponified soaps and synthetics can be dropped further.
I would have to defer the question. Soaps were exempted from the Cosmetic Act and like many Chemists my knowledge is more academic than practical. There are several soapers in this forum and I am sure that shortly they will weigh-in.
As @Belassi rightfully points out, the pH issues with soaps are one of the reasons that surfactants are so predominant in the industry.
Regardless, if you are going to even attempt this. I would recommend getting a pH meter, not relying upon pH strips.
You can’t add the Citric acid to the NaOH solution and then expect any significant saponification. They defies the simplest Chemical concepts.
Keep in mind that @Bobzchemist‘s method is a bit slick and arguably doesn’t give you a true pH. No offense Bob, but I read between the lines and I think that was also in the back of your mind.
And again “preservative free” comes up. Proper appropriate preservation trumps any “preservative free” method in safety. As a general rule, customers will appreciate a safe product over a trendy yet unsafe Marketing gimmick.
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If you lower the pH of a saponified soap this low (6.5 to 7.5) you will no longer have soap as it will cause the product to fail. So the short answer is you can’t.
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@Belassi Thank you! Honestly I thought about chiming in but I decided not to for the exact same reason. I know most of the raw materials by wt/wt% so this format is of no use to me.
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I once had a client want me to call “the people that assign the INCI names” and get them to change the INCI name of Hemp Oil (Cannabis Sativa Seed Oil). She loved the material but felt some her client would be put off since it was listed as marijuana.
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The saponins are a newer direction that some “natural” cleansing products are using. Years ago I used a source of these from Soap Berry Extract. My experience was that they cleansed but were difficult to get good lather or rinseability. There is some thought that they even have some preservative properties. They are not saponified, hence the lack of a strong alkali. Coincidentally here in the US the combination of Salicylic acid and Resorcinol would make it OTC. If I recall correctly the Resorcinol is only allowed in combination with Sulfur so it is even an unapproved OTC.
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@Belassi You are thinking like a reasonable, evidence based Formulator, not a Marketer! lol I agree. I thought the Science was spotty but we were “invited” to not over think it.
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I worked on a similar product and it is actually deceptively simple, nit based on Chemistry (with the exception of the film former) and based 99% on marketing. The thought process was “sulfates strip the color, therefore my sulfate free shampoo protects the hair color.” I swear to all, it was this simple and marketing based.
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Use KOH vice NaOH in the saponification process.
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I highly doubt that exogenous Citral was added to the product and in fact is listed as part of the EU Fragrance Declaration, being part of their fragrance itself as you rightfully pointed out.
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Leuconostoc Ferment Filtrate is Arborcide OC by Active Concepts. It is a weak preservative marketed as “not really a preservative.” If I took this project on I would stipulate that the products must undergo PET testing before being manufactured.
Note they list MIC’s, testing of preservative ability. So technically a preservative even though they try to confuse the issue.
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That combination is also potentiated by the addition of a chelant to the Formula.
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I think for all intents and purposes, Plastic microbeads are rapidly on their way out. Not a big deal as we have numerous other alternatives and I expect to see more as the distributors see this as an opportunity for new materials.
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Coco Polyglucosides, Decyl glucoside.
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@Bill_Toge Those are exactly the questions Marketers don’t want you asking!
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It actually reminds me of a story. When I graduated and joined the Navy, at my first duty station I moonlighted with CVS Drugs in downtown Norfolk, VA. Now I was pretty sheltered and had never really lived outside of Upstate NY. A man came in and asked for his “Nature pills.” I had no clue. He asked like 3 times and each time he got more frustrated. Finally the other Pharmacist came over and took the bottle off the shelf for me. It was a “vitamin” called Red Rooster. It was heavy in Zinc and Iron. This was before Viagra. They would buy 3 or 4 at a time.
Maybe we can add Zinc and market it that way!
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Bob, I think you and I are the real opportunists in the Cosmetic Industry!
But on a serious note, these poorly defined and partially conclusive studies are what EWG loves. Bet it makes their next “Sunscreen Guide.”
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“I’m So Bronzed and the Baby isn’t Mine SPF 30”
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It’s a marketing opportunity! It blocks UV and is a male contraceptive. Lemonade from lemons.
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The ratio of ceramide/cholesterol and fatty acid was originally outlined in an NIH study. I would hazard a guess that the above links probably footnote this study somewhere. It is helpful.
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I am a huge fan of Phenoxyethanol and use the heck out of it. However, it can have some stinging and irritation. Some clients may experience irritation, especially in facial products. When we used it as a standalone, that is when it often got a bad rap. That could be the issue.
If it is an allergy, the Shea could the offender, especially if the client has an existing latex allergy. It is rare, but as an allergist said at a conference 3 years ago, sometimes the allergic profile lines up and the client can present with a co-allergy. Shea contains some “latex like” compounds.
Lastly I have heard of similar issues with orange il, especially topically. Do some research in this area.
As for the Carbomer, I think that would have presented as an issue in the feel and sensient characteristics of the product. What did you neutralize it with? What was the final pH. I hope you are using a meter in this case.
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Yes, the Formula would be helpful. As @Belassi points out there are some common offenders. Does the client have any other allergies, such as latex perhaps or nut allergies?
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If it is a true allergy you could be tempting fate re-challenging her. Save a sample and have her see an allergist. Patch testing could diagnose the issue. It would be an interesting test study. We rarely see true allergies in Cosmetics, juts people misusing this diagnosis.
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Numbness of the tongue would actually be more properly the signs of an allergy. A full blown allergy would present as anaphylaxis. Which did she try first? It is possible that she experienced increased allergic response from subsequent challenges of the same allergen.
The reason I am usually skeptical when someone says allergy is that it is much rarer, although possible from application of a topical product.
In the end, she should see an allergist who would try to identify the offending allergen. It is likely that she could be exposed to the allergen from other sources.
An interesting aside that was brought up at a conference last year. Natural extracts (with a spread of many albeit similar alkaloids) actually present more potential for allergic challenge than a traditional product where the active components have been isolated and refined.