[markj187]

When I was starting out with this hobby, I was a very very BIG fan of essential oils. I have a box of various essential oils (until now). I thought EO is better because it is natural. I prefer fragrance oils now. Why?

1. I got a very bad skin burn with orange, lemon and bergamot EO that I put in a body wash. Even after rinsing off, I got a phototoxic reaction. It took 3 weeks before the irritation, pain, and prickly feeling to subside.

2. Tea tree and lavender are endocrine disruptors. They cause males to develop breasts. They also interfere with women’s hormones.

3. Some EOs can cause seizures.

Use EOs at your own risk.

References:
https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2019/9/feature/3-feature-lavender/index.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4782146/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4096528

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28905185

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7333081

[markj187]

I have been planning to make this but we still have some shampoo left.

Here’s the link. They add Behentrimonium Chloride + PQ7 + CAPB before adding anionics.

http://www.kaochemicals-eu.com/sites/default/files/formulations/c-244.pdf

[markj187]

@Gunther

1. SMC taurate, Decyl glucoside, CAPB, then CETAC. 

2. SLES, SCS, CAPB, then CETAC.

I did find formulations at Kao Chemicals where the order is cationics + CAPB then add the anionics after. There’s even one using Behentrimonium Chloride with SLES.

I think mine worked because I used a high amount of CAPB . On the 2 versions above, I used CAPB at 15% (4.5 ASM). This might have helped in preventing the cationic reacting with the anionics

[markj187]

@Belassi - My wife gets dry patches on her skin too

@Gunther
@em88
 
Knocked-off CMEA. It’s better now and doesn’t cause skin peeling or dry patches. Thanks!

I thought CMEA helps lessen irritation by anionics. I prefer using SLES or Sodium Coco Sulfate instead of other anionics. I have tried SMC Taurate and Sodium Cocoyl Glycinate but didn’t like their performance.

[markj187]

@Gunther Yes, it’s anioinic. I have tried it in 2 versions. Worked out fine at 2%. I add CETAC last after CAPB

1. SMC taurate + CAPB + Decyl Glucoside
2. SLES + Sodium Coco Sulfate + CAPB. 

[markj187]

CETAC won’t make a significant difference as it is less conditioning than BTMS 50. BTMS 50 is better at detangling too.

I used to make a conditioner with BTMS 50 and 2% CETAC. Removed CETAC because I ran out and my wife, who is my personal tester didn’t notice the difference on her long hair.

I use CETAC though on conditioning shampoo and it does make a difference together with PQ-7

[markj187]

@Gunther

1. EDTA should be 0.1%, not 1% - It’s a 10%  solution
2. check your pH. High EDTA can make it too alkaline. - pH is 5
3. Try lowering or removing glycerin and PQ-7 to see if it gets less sticky. - I don’t have issues with stickiness
4. Try it without the fragrance first. - Okay
5. What is EHGP? - Ethylhexylglycerin + Phenoxyethanol (Euxyl PE 9010)
6. Active SLES should be 8%+ so that it can be properly thickened with salt. - Thickening is not a problem. The final outcome is very viscous.

My problem is that the base formula above looks mild on paper but is the opposite in reality. It dries the skin and causes skin peeling.

@DAS
Thanks! Will try it out.

[markj187]

Thanks everyone for your inputs. Total ASM for the formula is 14.19 to 14.2. I read that shampoos should have max 15. Can I still push it further and go above 15 safely?

ASM
Sodium Coco Sulfate 95% - 7.6
SLES 70% - 2.09
CAPB 30% - 4.5

For PEG 40, is 1% enough to make a clear solution with 0.5 rosemary extract?

For the salt, I added at 0.2g increments and eventually maxed out to 3% and it never got any thicker.

“Too much PEG40.” - what’s the common percentage usage for PEG40?

[markj187]

I think you are right guys. I reduced the APGs to a total of 10% and the itchiness and drying was significantly reduced. I had this notion that APGs are mild and moisturizing. It seems that CMEA + APGs are a bad combination.

I’ll try other surfactants to further validate. Thank you so much for your thoughts 

[markj187]

Thanks everyone for your inputs. Couldn’t get Lamesoft PO 65 and Methyl Gluceth-20 here in our country.   

I made different batches of this formula with varying surfactants. For some reason, those without CMEA didn’t cause irritation which was weird. 

Made a small batch of body wash without CMEA and I didn’t get itchy skin. I got CMEA for for refatting and it causes my skin to itch, get red and flake.

What will I do now with all the CMEA I have?! 

[markj187]

@chemnc pH is 5.4 after adding citric acid 50% solution

[markj187]

@Microformulation isn’t glycerine and CMEA not enough as humectant and refatter

[markj187]

@Belassi the original formulation had 17% decyl glucoside and was okay. Could someone have a reaction to Coco glucoside but not to Decyl Glucoside?