[MarkBroussard]

Why don’t you just test it with either a microbial dipstick or send it to a lab for a plate test.

[MarkBroussard]

So, the question is … why such a high level of Parfum?

[MarkBroussard]

@Lisa18:

Why so high on the Parfum?  The solubility is only about 0.6% in water … or is your 6% a typo?

[MarkBroussard]

@OrganicPap

If you search you can indeed find Organic Liquid coconut oil from Nutiva

[MarkBroussard]

Your problem is that you are only using Stearic Acid as an emulsifier which requires a pH above 7 in order for it to “soap” to function as an emulsifier.  Also, you don’t have nearly enough Stearic Acid … you should increase that to 5% to 6%.

You need to add a second emulsifier … I might recommend adding Glyceryl Stearate at 3%.

Finally, you will need to let the emulsion cool to room temperature before making your pH adjustment with citric acid.  Keep your final pH around 5 to 5.5.

[MarkBroussard]

You could also try adding some Betaine to enhance moisturization of the hair and Sensoveil SIL (Orbignya Speciosa Kernel Oil (and) Hydrogenated Soybean Oil (and) Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil (and) Linum Usitatissimum (Linseed) Seed Oil) from Chemyunion for detangling.

[MarkBroussard]

@enzinhoo:

It is probably an emulsifier issue … you may be using an emulsifier that is not stable at lower pH levels.  As noted above, if you post a formula you can get better advice.

[MarkBroussard]

@OrganicPap:

There is available on the market Liquid Coconut Oil that will not solidify at room temperature.  You could also use Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides instead of coconut oil.  Either would solve your problem.

[MarkBroussard]

Free shit needed asap

[MarkBroussard]

The only real answer to your question is as many prototypes as you need to achieve your objectives of product performance, sensorial attributes, stability and preservation.  It all depends of your skill level in how quickly you achieve these objectives … there is no typical number of prototypes … it could be one prototype or it could be 5 or 10 or 13 or 22.  You never know.

Generally, for a body cream, if it takes you more than 5 prototypes, you should probably rethink your formula or your objectives.

[MarkBroussard]

I am not quibbling with you … just being more precise because “liquid product like this” could be interpreted to mean any liquid product.

So to be clear:  Yes, you CAN use solid surfactants in liquid products, you just need to use the correct amount.  Use too much solid surfactant and your liquid product will solidify.

[MarkBroussard]

MarkBroussard said:

@charmainia:

The problem is that your Sodium Coco-Sulfate is too high @ 25%.  Cut that down to 12% or so.

SwiftCraftyMonkey said:

Charmainia said:

Hi all,

I formulated a surfactant base for a facial wash using a formulation from Swift Crafty Monkey. However, upon standing for a couple of days to allow any bubbles to disspiate, the formula began turning to a solid. It took almost a week to solidify in the glass beaker and each day I could see it turning slowly from a clear liquid to a white solid. It changed to a solid in a strange way by the solid parts “spreading” through the liquid and “consuming”, for what of a better word, the liquid.

Does anyone know why this may have happened?

The formula is this:
HEATED,WATER,PHASE,
25%,surfactantof,choice, (I chose sodium coco sulfate in solid noodle form)
15%,cocamidopropyl,betaine,

54.5%,distilled,water,

3%,glycerin,

2%,polyquat,7

COOL DOWN PHASE:
0.5% Preservative 

I wouldn’t suggest you use a solid surfactant in a liquid product like this, and I can assure you I’ve never used sodium coco sulfate in this way. (I have used SCS in maybe 10 formulas over 12 years, and all of them were in solid products.) Your product solidified because you used a solid surfactant. I tried working with SCI like this in 2009, but I updated those posts to reflect the fails I experienced with re-solidification, and I’ve written in greater detail since about what I learned and what I would do differently now. Unfortunately, I’ve noticed those formulas have been shared by others without noting they originated from my blog and that they would re-solidify. 

Actually, your comment does indeed suggest that a solid surfactant should not be used in liquid products.  The product solidified because the OP used too much solid surfactant in a liquid product, not simply because it is a solid surfactant.  It’s a clarification.

[MarkBroussard]

You can indeed use solid surfactants in liquid products.  It is simply a matter of using the appropriate amount of solid surfactant.  I use SCI in commercial liquid products all the time with no issues.  To say that you can only use solid surfactants in solid products is simply incorrect.

[MarkBroussard]

@Posmatrac10:

All you need to do is use Sucrose Stearate as an emulsifier and you should achieve the result you  are looking for.  But, I would switch to a Super Low Molecular Weight HA to ease processing.

[MarkBroussard]

I address this issue by always formulating to a defined natural standard or standard(s) using ingredients that are certified by either NOP, NPA, ECOCert or NSF.

But, I generally also advise clients that actually getting their products certified by one of these bodies is not really worth the time, effort & expense relative to the marketing benefit … to most consumers, unless it is an NOP Organic certification, the other certifications are relatively meaningless.

[MarkBroussard]

You can get Phytic Acid from Biosil Technologies or Dr. Straetmans’s.

[MarkBroussard]

@Doreen:

Yes, if you have any microbial growth in a product it fails … it does not matter if the organism is pathogenic or not, you simply fail because your preservative is not preventing all microbial growth.

Yes, you want to use GMP in making your batches, but once the product is being used by a a consumer, it will be exposed to the untreated ambient air and their fingers … so these are the real world conditions under which your preservative must be effective.

Now, if you are a manufacturer making a number of products for different customers, any extraneous source of microbial contamination will affect all of your production, so it will make sense to install UV lamps in your facility and in the HVAC system. 

[MarkBroussard]

You should not rely on “add parabens” as if that was a cure-all for preservation. 

Every formula is different and the preservation strategy that works for one formula may not work for another similar formula.  The only way to know is to test. 

It’s simple … if you don’t test, you don’t know.  Unless, of course, you can see mold growth, but the real issue is just what is it that you can’t see growing in your sample?  

There is no need to “send a sample for a test mulitple times” … simply use a dipstick for a scoping confirmation on preservation.  Again, since you’re a homecrafter who is not making commercial products, that’s all you need if you want some modicum of certainty.

[MarkBroussard]

@ngarayeva001: 

Nonsense … Schuelke is the leading microbial testing company in Europe and these tests are used extensively in a wide variety of industrial applications.  It’s nothing more than an agar growth medium which is commonly used in micro labs for plate tests.  If you fail a dipstick test, there is no way you are going to pass a PCT, so they are reliable screening tests.  In fact, if you have any growth at all on a dipstick test, then you know for certain that your preservative system is not working.

Now, I don’t know about the quality of dipsticks from Lotioncrafter, but no reason why those would not work the same … in fact, they may well buy them from Schulke and repackage them.

If you are a homecrafter and you are relying on nothing more than looking at your samples to see if you can detect microbial growth, you have absolutely no clue whether your concoctions are adequately preserved or not.  

[MarkBroussard]

This is all you need … a small incubator & dipslides … all available from Schulke:

http://www.mikrocount.com/mikrocount-en/Cultura-Brutschrank.php

[MarkBroussard]

@Doreen:

These strip tests do not need to be done in a clean room.  They are designed to be placed in an incubator.  The likelihood that you would ever get any contamination from the air is negligible.  And, if your preservative is working properly, it won’t matter where the contamination comes from … the preservative will do its job.

Unless your packaging is airless containers, once a container is opened in a customer’s home, it’s going to be exposed to the air in the house.  The whole idea is to test products simulating real-world conditions, not laboratory conditions per se.

[MarkBroussard]

I also picked up on the comment “create/fix a formula and send samples out the door in a less than a week”

@CarbopolUltrez:  Exactly how much experience do you have? … this will all change over time as you gain more experience and exposure.  You’re not going to see anywhere near the variety of product development with a Brand company as you will with a contract manufacturer.

Working for a Brand company, oftentimes you will be working on the minutia of the same formula for months on end … you’ll long for the days of a fast-paced environment with a variety of different products to work on.

[MarkBroussard]

If you don’t do either a microbial plate test, strip test or Preservative Challenge Test, you have absolutely no idea whether or not your preservation approach is working or not.  While the growth of mold may be obvious to the eye, other forms of microbial contamination are not at all obvious to the eye or smell.

Even if you are a homecrafter, you should at least run strip tests on your batches to see if you have any contamination.  They are readily available from a couple of the homecrafter ingredient sites.

[MarkBroussard]

First of all, this discussion has nothing to do with your particular product.

Euxyl 9010 is indeed a broad spectrum preservervative.  EHG functions by weaking the cell membrane wall, so it will affect bacteria, yeast and mold.  Again, proper preservation is not simply a matter of adding one ingredient to a product.

[MarkBroussard]

Yes, correct.  You need to reduce the pH at the beginning of the process for the Guar to hydrate properly.  I would take the pH down to 5.5 or so by adding the citric at the beginning of the process then stir for 45 min to give the Guar time to hydrate properly