MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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I think you are missing the interpretation in that graph in your statement that you should not use Tocopherol above 0.2%.
The graph is showing the rate of diene conversion at different temperatures … what that graph is actually showing is that as the temperature increases, the rate of diene formation increases given the same amount of tocopherol.
It is not supporting that tocopherol becomes significantly pro-oxidative at concentrations above 0.2%. What is is showing is that at concentrations above 100 ppm, you really are not getting any additional benefit from the addition of more alpha-tocopherol.
The most relevant line in the graph is the 40C trend line which is closest to normal skin temperature (32.5C) and rises to 33.5C, on average, when sunbathing.
The 60C trend line equates to 140F … skin temperature only gets that high if you are on fire, so it has no real relevance.
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It’s actually a bit more complicated than that. Tocopherol is the biologically-active form of Vitamin E and is found primarily in the epidermis and sebum, but it is easily oxidized. When applied topically, it does penetrate into the epidermis and increases total tocopherol content and provides significant skin benefits, primarily as a free-radical scavenger.
Tocopherol Acetate is much more stable, but the conversion rate to free tocopherol when applied topically is at best 6%, so topically-applied tocopherol acetate isn’t really doing very much. Tocopherol, when applied topically is documented to substantially increase the tocopherol content in the skin for up to 24 hours.
Yes, you can use both in the same formulation. The key is to add “co-antioxidants” to stabilize the tocopherol such as Ferulic Acid, Grape Seed Extract, Resveratrol, Green Tea catechins, Vitamin C, Ubiquinone. It all depends on your product form as to which of the above co-antioxidants are appropriate to use. You can also mix tocopherol, tocotrienols and tocopherol acetate.
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Tocopherol acetate is a snythetic ester made from natural tocopherol. The ester is more stable against going rancid than the natural tocopherol. The both perform essentially the same function.
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If it is clear “white” … it should be translucent, then what you have is Tocopheryl Acetate
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This is bascially a Glycolic Acid wash. While it does not contain traditional preservatives, it is preserved with Orange Peel Oil and Cinnamon Oils.
I do find it curious that the identity of JooMo and its product is identified in the study, but the two other cleansers that were tested were not identified by manufacturer. So, I guess you can kind of figure out that the research paper may have been corporate sponsored.
Aqua, Saccharum Officinarum (Unrefined Sugar) Extract, Maris Sal (Organic Sea Salt), Saponins, Mel (Unprocessed Raw Honey), Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Juice, Cyamopsis Tetragonoloba (Guar) Gum, Acacia Senegal Gum Extract, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Peel Oil, Eugenia Caryophyllus (Clove) Leaf Oil, Cinnamomum Zeylanicum (Cinnamon) Leaf Oil, Cinnamomum Cassia (Chinese Cinnamon) Leaf Oil
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@MJL:
Acrylates Copolymer: you could sub Xanthan Gum or Sclerotium Gum as the thickener
Caprylyl Glycol, 1,2-Hexanediol: This is your preservative blend. Note that they also add NaOH … do you know the pH of the commercial product? Best if you keep the pH in the 5.0 to 5.5 range and choose an appropriate preservative.
Mica/TiO2: Not necessary. Just leave them out.
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In my experience, the best all-around natural preservative is:
Linatural Ultra-3: Phenethyl Alcohol, Pentylene Glycol, Propanediol … from Lincoln Fine Ingredients.
Broad pH range and it works well in toners, serums … water-based products.
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Here you go:
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If you review the scientific literature on studies done of Aloe Vera you will find that none of those purported skin benefits of Aloe Vera have been substantiated in clinical testing.
Perry posted a thread on it a while back … a professor at University of Florida compiled an extensive review of the research on Aloe Vera and the conclusion was that it has no evidence-based skin benefit.
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Certified Organic Aloe Vera Juice is commonly used in products to “jack up” the organic content if you are trying to get organic certification on your final product. It’s an expensive approach since you can only use liquid aloe vera juice and not the organic powder. But, aloin in aloe vera juice is a potential carcinogen and aloe vera juice has no proven skin benefit. So, it’s really a marketing label ingredient as most consumers think that aloe vera is skin-beneficial and/or strategic ingredient if you are targeting organic certification. I suspect companies do not highlight “Aloin-Free” Aloe Vera Juice to not draw attention to the issue.
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She has some good points regarding her list of “do not included ingredients” … Essential Oils, unbalanced Linoleic/Oleic Oil combinations, overall pH balance and her products are well-formulated for the most part. They appear to be 2 phase systems as she does not use emulsifiers, so they must be shake well before use to mix the oil and water phases.
Where she is going off the rails, and is it pure marketing schtick on her part, is that chemists do not have the skill set to formulate good cosmetic products nor understand skin biology as she completely disregards the fact that most all learning is self-taught and is a life long experience. The implication is that because you have a degree in chemistry, that you are incapable of learning or understanding skin biology and that you stop learning at the end of your degree, which is patently absurd. But, again, that is part of her marketing.
I do have to laugh at her dig at the profit motivation of skin care developers when her own products are priced at $100 to $200 per ounce and require no more skill than pouring a fixed set ingredients into a beaker. All one need do is some research on ingredients and ingredient combinations to develop a similar suite of products … basically, that’s something any trained scientist in chemistry, biology and related fields is capable of doing. I mean, how many years of scientific training does one need to come to the conclusion that putting Cilantro Extract in a skin care concoction could be beneficial to the skin?
By the way, someone should inform her that Aloe Vera Juice has absolutely no scientifically-proven skin care benefit, and can potentially be harmful if it is not aloin-free.
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Excellent … it’s the only chelator I ever use. I do also use Phytic Acid, but primarily to reduce pH although it does have functionality as a chelator
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You probably would not notice any difference in an emulsion. Where the difference would be notable would be in a water-based serum where the propanediol would not have the sticky sensorial that you would get with glycerin.
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I see … can you get your hands on some pentylene glycol or 1,3-Propanediol? If so, try either one @ 3% + Acids. It would also be helpful if you could source some Dissolvine GL47 (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) a chelating agent that is a good preservative booster. None of these are irritating to the skin.
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Yes, neither Salicylic Acid or Lactic Acid are broad spectrum preservatives. You will get some preservation from the low pH and Sal Acid, but you still need to supplement this with a fungicide. Sodium Benzoate is cheap … the difference between 0.5% and 0.3% for instance is negligible as it relates to cost. So, why take a risk?
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A solution to your problem would be to use a high molecular weight Hyaluronic Acid as your gelling agent/thickener as opposed to carbomer or switch to a pre-neutralized carbomer or perhaps one of the Seppic gelling polymers. That would allow you to eliminate the carbomer and the TEA which would simplify your manufacturing process and eliminate the potential for pH drift.
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Did you check to see if there was a pH drift to higher levels over time?
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What is your final product pH? Are you using a pre-neutralized carbomer or are you neutralizing the carbomer with one of the usual suspects?
From what you have written, it would appear that perhaps your final product pH is above 6.0? If so, that may be part of your problem.
It would also help immensely if you added a chelating agent, plus a pH adjustment to below 6.0, if feasible. Or, switch to a low-pH activating carbomer … Ultrez 21 or 30, I forget which one starts gelling at pH 4.0
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Here’s how Redken promotes their new shampoo “powered by micellar technology”: http://www.redken.com/blog/haircare/what-is-micellar-shampoo-and-what-are-the-benefits
The simple fact of the matter is that all shampoos are micellar, there is nothing that distinguishes a micellar shampoo from a regular shampoo except for the marketing language.
Now, if you can get your hands on some Shampoo Micellate … that’s a whole different ballgame.
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@Perry … LOL! … That’s probably more effective than the Micellar water!
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Yes, they really aren’t shampoos or cleansers per se … it’s primarily a marketing concept … the idea is you swab the face or hair with a dilute solution of surfactant or solubilizer without rinsing off to cleanse in between real shampoos. A cleanse booster, if you will … kind of the human equivalent of a cat bath.
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You assume wrong
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Here’s one differentiator regarding Micellar cleansers and shampoos: “Micellar” (the marketing term) cleansers contain only 1% or less total surfactant … they are designed to be leave-on products, so you add just a touch of surfactant, otherwise it will get itchy on the skin.
So, to make a micellar water or shampoo all you need do is add 1% surfactant to water, add an appropriate preservative and whatever other ingredients you so choose. You can also add 10-15% of a glycol to give it a “slick” feel. Voila’ … you have converted water into “micellar” water.
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I would use Montanov 82 (Cetearyl Alcohol + Coco-Glucoside) at 3% to 4% … you’ll need to add an additional 2% Cetearyl Alcohol to thicken it up. That, plus the Myristyl Myristate should give you a nice texture. You’ll want to leave in the Xanthan Gum.
Yes, I would leave out the Ceteareth-20 and Gel Emulsifier altogether.
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Cap Glycol / EHG is a standard blend … you can purchase pre-blended from Makingcosmetics.com for small quantities to test.