MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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1% Geogard Ultra + 0.5% Phenethyl Alcohol + 3% Pentylene Glycol will do the trick for you
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Yes, I usually use it in balms instead of beeswax. i have also used it in a couple of creams. It yields a nice texture. Use 2% to 3% in a cream. 7% to 10% in a balm
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You brought up a good point as i have not read that patent in quite some time. I would not worry about Jaycetowww selling anything anytime soon if you refer back to his/her proposed first formula and Jaycetowww said he/she was just beginning to learn about formulating, so all advice was offered in that context.
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If you want to make a water-based serum, you can use Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate … it is most stable around pH = 6.0. There are some other forms of “stabilized” Vitamin C derivatives, but I find SAP to be the easiest to work with.
If you want to make an oil-based serum, you can use Tetrahexadecyl Ascorbate.
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Adamnfineman said:@MarkBroussard
I understand that this is the most effective combination for stabilizing Vitamin C that is covered by the patent. Every one of their claims include the solvent + Vitamin C + Cinnamic Acid derivative, but not every one of their claims includes Vitamin E.
Doesn’t that mean that the formulae without Vitamin E are still covered by the patent even though they are less effective?
That would be a question for a patent attorney. The point here is to help Jaycetowww learn how to formulate a serum as his/her proposed formula was simply not going to work.
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The main claim to the patent is that the combination of Vitamin E + Ferulic Acid yields an 8X increase in preventing oxidation of the L-Ascorbic Acid
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Actually, the L’Oreal patents covers the combination of Vitamin C, Ferulic Acid and Vitamin E. The key point being the combination of Vitamin E and Ferulic Acid is the essential combination. There is no Vitamin E in the formula proposed for Jacetowww.
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Try using Siligel
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You’re filliing too hot. The heat is concentrated in the center and as the sides cool faster it creates the hole in the center. Try filling at a lower temperature closer to the temp where your mixture still flows, but is starting to congeal. Then put it in the fridge to facilitate rapid cooling. You may still get a slight indentation that you can fill in as needed.
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The glucosides being non-ionic are very difficult to thicken … gums are your best bet. I would switch from Lauryl Glucoside to Coco Glucoside and you will probably have better luck. Lauryl Glucoside is very viscous and that is probably what is settling out of solution.
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GMS solo? … probably not. You should pair this up with another high HLB emulsifier that builds viscosity.
Again, if you are new to formulating, this is not a good formula for you to learn from. Try making the cream first without the MgCl … you’ll have better success with that. Then move on to a version with MgCl.
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Curious … has the formula you are working on ever been made before? Or, are you working off of a theoretical paper formula for a new product development?
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Here’s a simple formula that is a good starter for you:
Water (43.5%) + L-Ascorbic Acid (15%) + 1,3-Propanediol (45%) + Ferulic Acid (0.5%) + Phenoxyethanol (0.5%) + Sodium Hyaluronate (800-1200 kDa) (0.5%)
1. Dissolve L-Ascorbic Acid in Water.
2. Heat 1,3-Propanediol to 75C. Add Ferulic Acid to hot Propanediol stirring to dissolve and make uniform
3. Add Propanediol/Ferulic Acid mixture to Water/Ascorbic Acid mixture stirring to make uniform
4. Add Phenoxyethanol to Step3 mixture stirring to make uniform
5. Sprinkle Sodium Hyaluronate into Step4 mixture while stirring@300RPM. Continue stirring until uniform (approximately 2 hours)As @Bill_Toge pointed out, you would probably be safe not adding a preservative to this concoction as its native pH will be somewhere in the range 2.5 to 3.0, but good practice for you starting out to develop the discipline of proper preservation.
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Yes, I have tried dimethicone alternatives. Nothing works nearly as good as Dimethicone. I do find that the inclusion of 1% Jojoba Esters (the KW-20 water-soluble version) is the most effective, but not as good as dimethicone. Carbomer can also be helpful.
What I usually do with dimethicone-resistant ciients is prepare a sample with alternatives and a sample with dimethicone and send them both to compare side by side. Most often, when they see the difference, they come to the conclusion that dimethicone is not such a bad ingredient after all.
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This is not a good formula for a beginner to use as a starting point. Making these Mg creams is highly process dependent.
Polysorbate … try 1%. Dimethicone … try to convince whomever you need to that resolving soaping in this formula without Dimethicone will be quite difficult. I fail to understand why some are opposed to using Dimethicone … it’s actually a good ingredient.
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Try dropping your Glyceryl Stearate SE to 2% and Cetearyl Alcohol to 2%. Why so much Polysorbate 20?
Dimethicone … will solve your problem. I would suggest using it.
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Your proposed formula is going to be an ungodly sticky mess.
Water (45%), 1,3-Propanediol (40%), L-Ascorbic Acid (15%) … if you want a simple product for personal use.
Vitamin E won’t do anything in your proposed formula except add to the stickiness … it will not really help stabilize the L-Ascorbic Acid. The maximum effective load of L-Ascorbic Acid is 17%, so adding more than that is just a waste.
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It appears that the products are marketed under the Bepanthen/Bepanthenol brand names directly by Bayer targeted at ROW markets for sensitive skin and infants. Some of the products are OTC. From what I can tell, most of the products contain Phenoxyethanol. This one product may be an exception to the use of Phenoxyethanol.
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It appears that Bayer’s Bepanthen/Bepanthol Derma line is targeted to consumers who have sensitive, irritated skin. Note that they do use Phenoxyethanol in some of the products in the line. Generally, people with sensitive skin have a difficult time tolerating products containing traditional preservatives, but Phenoxyethanol is usually the best tolerated of the available options.
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The EU regulations contain the list of ingredients, percentages, restrictions, etc. of ingredients classified as preservatives that may be used in personal care cosmetic products. But, it does not specify that any preservative ingredient on the list must be used in personal care cosmetic products.
Bayer clearly wanted to market a “preservative-free” product and found ingredients not on the preservative annex that yielded acceptable preservation results to pass the safety assessment and get the products on the market. It would appear that they are relying on 1,2-Hexanediol, low pH (Citric Acid) and perhaps airless packaging to achieve this. The odd thing to me is if they cannot use “Preservative Free” claims in their advertising and packaging, what is the benefit?
Presumably, their market research indicated a decent market demand for a product line that did not contain any of the preservatives on the annex.
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That’s a pretty weak preservation system. You would benefit from the addition of a Chelating Agent + Phenoxyethanol.
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Just pre-mix it with your Coco Glucoside. 0.5% to 1.0% Glyceryl Oleate should do the trick
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Graillotion said:MarkBroussard said:@Graillotion
You have to be careful with repackers such as Making Cosmetics as they often change the order of the ingrdients in listing the INCI. I am assuming this may be a requirement of the manufacturer, but who knows.
Your best bet is to contact Koster Keunen directly and ask for a compositional breakdown … it may not be any more illuminating than what you got from MC, but at least it will be directly from the source.
I was aware that many times repackers are not allowed to use the real name of the product, but changing the INCI order? If above 1%…that has an ‘illegal’ vibe?
Yes, it is strange … the INCI from the manufacturer is the registered INCI. A repacker changing the INCI name order, which some of them do, seems not quite right.
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You have to be careful with repackers such as Making Cosmetics as they often change the order of the ingrdients in listing the INCI. I am assuming this may be a requirement of the manufacturer, but who knows.
Your best bet is to contact Koster Keunen directly and ask for a compositional breakdown … it may not be any more illuminating than what you got from MC, but at least it will be directly from the source.
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Rockstargirl said:Perry said:Here are my thoughts on the subject of stem cells in cosmetics.
Basically, I think they are promising but the technology at the moment is simply a claims ingredient with little to no benefit.I’m also highly skeptical that people will see any real effects from topically applied growth factors. These may show promise in cell cultures in the lab but this has not translated into actual topically applied products.
Some derms are better trained than others and while their advice about skin diseases and conditions is reliable, I’d have much less faith in their advice about daily skin care maintenance. They are easily misinformed & some are motivated to get you to buy into a marketing story so you buy products from them.
Thanks Perry. The derms also had a stake in the stem cell company soooo. But did spend a good amount of time telling me plant and human cells are the same. Red flag right away, but authority bias hit
FYI: I have leaves instead of ears if that helps you any