MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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Yes, research … to their best of their ability … they are not chemists.
The consumer makes the purchase decision based on their criteria. If your product contains ingredients they find objectionable, for whatever reason, they will not purchase and look for a product more suited to their liking. You cannot force ingredients on consumers, particularly when there are alternatives that achieve the objective and are acceptable to the consumer.
Absolutely, renewable & sustainability is a component of the purchase decision for many consumers. It’s something they value and are looking for and put their dollars to support it.
Marketing drives product development and it’s marketer’s job to understand what the consumer is looking for … and, there’s $50 billion annually of consumers looking for natural.
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What benefit?
They are happy with the performance of the products they purchase.
Consumers in this segment do their research and they are discriminating. That’s a simple fact of this market segment. In fact, that is why they purchase products in this segment … they are looking to avoid certain ingredients is a primary driver and they are looking for certain ingredients included in their products, be it because they like the performance or because it fulfills a desire for other aspects of the products they buy, such as sustainability. Consumers don’t just base their purchase decision on the ingredients in the bottle, but also on how those ingredients are sourced/derived.
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PhilGeis said:No - they’re not coming to an end. That claim continues with all its justifications and to no benefit to the consumer.
Let me put a different spin on this. The natural segment of the industry has grown from just a couple to $billion to $50 billion in less than a decade. The consumers in the in the natural segment are probably the most knowledgable and sophisticed consumers of personal care products … they read labels and research ingredients. Clearly, these consumers see a benefit in purchasing and repurchasing natural personal care products and they are happy with the products they purchase. If they saw no benefit they would not purchase.
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If your product contains 75% certified organic ingredients you can simply state that as a fact and put an asterisk next to each ingredient that is organic.
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To answer the question: Are the days of natual cosmetics coming to an end? Absolutely not … we’re actually in the early stages of an era where many cosmetic ingredients are and will be made from biotechnology, green chemisty, upcycling of industrial waste materials, fermentation.
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Actually, upcycling is quite a growing niche trend in cosmetics. I use an alternative to glycerin that is a barley ferment from the manufacture of gin that would normally be discharged into the water system. For consumers looking for natural personal care products, upcycled ingredients fit right into the ethos and more companies are bringing upcycled ingredients to the market. Renewable and sustainable has always been an element of the defintion of natural.
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Syl said:In this formula they have a some water soluble ingredients like lanolin cucmis salivus (cucmber) fruit extract and citric acid probably solubilized in the extract. It must be at a very low percentage.
I think that is a typo and there is supposed to be a comma after lanolin, … there is no such ingredient as lanolin cucumis salivus (cucumber) fruit extract.
All the other variants of this line of products have a comma after lanolin.
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Padmavathi said:In India, there is something called AYUSH (dept for Ayurveda, Siddha, Unani, Homeopathy, Naturopathy, etc). If you make a product (personal care products or drugs) using ayurvedic/siddha herbs, you don’t necessarily have to get an FDA licence. You can go for an AYUSH license. Like how Biotique (and many other brands) has done.
Here, you only have to mention the herbs and its percentage on label, and base/excipients.
What many brands do is that they use just one or two herbs (not even according to ayurveda/siddha principles) in a product, and get it licensed under AYUSH, just so they won’t have to mention ingredients.This is a crazy. The equivalent would be that if you use certain plant extracts in cosmetic products in the US, then you would not need to list all the other ingredients in the product? Do I understand this correctly?
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Pattsi said:MarkBroussard said:Personally, I would like to see the 1% rule done away with and you just list all ingredients in declining order of inclusion.
@MarkBroussard - I have to disagree with you on this. How do we supposed to list our star dusts then lol.
LOL! … look at all the money you can save by not putting star dusts in products .. fewer ingredients to buy for no benefit other than having the name on your LOI.
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Newtoformulating said:So using Euxyl k940, chlorphenesin, Pentylene Glycol, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate (GLDA) to preserve my formula won’t work?
The simple answer to your question is: Yes, this should work
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You can put an asterisk next to each ingredient that is certified organic and denote these as organic ingredients. Without any knowledge of what synthetic ingredients you are using, it is not possible to give you any better advise.
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Graillotion said:You are aware of the 1% rule?
Personally, I would like to see the 1% rule done away with and you just list all ingredients in declining order of inclusion. When reverse engineering a formula, I usually ignore most ingredients below the 1% line except for the obvious like chelating agents, etc.
Correct, it’s more marketing than formula. I seriously doubt that @esthetician922 has come up with something uniquely new, but a variation on a theme. Most reverse engineering requests are also made with some variations, so people are more interested in using the bones of the formula, but then adding their own twist to it.
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Abdullah said:Will you have to show your ingredients to FDA if you want to apply for a trade secret?
Is there any product in market who is legally hiding the ingredients because he has applied for a trade secret?
Yes, of course and you would have to have an extremely good reason for seeking a trade secret. I am only aware of a couple of ingredients that have some sort of trade secret component.
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As I suspect you already know, you are not required to list processing aids on your LOI, but you must use the INCI of the ingredient. All of the examples you raised are covered in the regulations.
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@drjayseesunish
Those brands are sold in India. Perhaps they are in complicance with the labeling laws in India or they are simply not in compliance.
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You can’t … you must disclose every single ingredient in the product regardless of how little you use. The only work-around is if you apply to the FDA for a trade secret, but you must have a valid reason for requesting the trade secret and the chances of you receiving one are very, very slim.
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This is primarily an issue for people who desire to impart color to a product, but don’t want to do so using FD&C dyes. I agree with you, how would someone prove that the ingredient imparting color is or is not being used for some specific cosmetic functional purpose. Best if you can justify a legitimate reason for including the ingredient. I think that regulation came out of the FDA’s Department Of Stupid Rules.
@Anca_Formulator … look over the IL of the Campo Research products and see if you can come up with a legitimate functional cosmetic rationale for their inclusion in your products.
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No, Copper Tripeptide-1 has a legitimate function as a cosmetic ingredient. That’s why it is best to use cosmetic ingredients for this purpose.
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Campo Research has some plant extracts that are used as colorants and are stable.
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What ingredients are in your cream? Not really possible to advise you without an idea of what may be causing the irritation/sensitization.
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My goodness … what a nasty, sticky mess that is going to be. Try switching to Poly Suga Mulse D9 instead of Polysorabte. Start at a 3:1 ratio and increase if you need to.
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The companies that are active in this field have spent considerable time and money working exclusively on developing stable water-soluble CBD. It is very difficult to do which is why water-soluble CBD is expensive. I honestly do not think your probability of success is very high … certainly not something I would undertake.
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Glycerin - 32
Polyquat 7 - 7.5
What is this formula supposed to be/do? -
Your best bet is to puchase water-soluble CBD. Creating water-soluble CBD is not an easy task and there are a handful of companies that specialize in making water-soluble CBD for beverages and other applications.
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The problem you have is that the compounds that give color to Blue Tansy and Seabuckthorn are not long-term stable in the presence of water. So, if your cream that is initially light blue turns grey, I would consider that a fail. Your base emulsion is likely stable, but not the product as a whole. In an emulsion, Blue Tansy will turn grey and Seabuckthorn will turn brown. Blue Tansy and Seabuckthorn are more appropriate to give stable color to anhydrous systems.
If your objective is to color your emulsions where the colors will be more long-term stable you’ll have better results using Malachite Extract or Copper Tripeptide-1 for blue and Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B12) will give you a pink color.