[MarkBroussard]

ProfessorHerb said:

I use BTMS and cetyl, any you would recommend with similar texture. Some of my clients have sensitive skin so they request BTMS 25. I’ve tried three others and the emulsion still did not hold up. I use hyaluronic acid as the base and its notoriously difficult to keep stable but can be done as commerically available proucts are not incorporating it into their formulas.

Couple of things:  “I use hyaluronic acid as a base” … what molecular weight HA are you using and do you incorporate the HA pre or post emulsification?  You should be adding it post-emulsification unless it is super low mw HA

BTMS/Cetyl … assuming you are using a pre-blend.  Add some Glyceryl Stearate SE to help stabilize the emulsion.

[MarkBroussard]

@Trng1122

Try using Curoxyl 42 from Vantage.  It’s a 40% suspension of micronized BP in water … just drop it in and your done.

[MarkBroussard]

@Abdullah

What they are calling Polyethylene is almost certainly LDPE (Low Density Polyethylene) which is used in packaging.  HDPE is generally used for rigid structure items such as cutting boards.  It sounds as though this supplier may not know the difference between LDPE and HDPE.

[MarkBroussard]

@quimico2

What is your preservation system?

[MarkBroussard]

@Abdullah

These would appear to be Polyethylene Terepthallate (PET), not HDPE

[MarkBroussard]

@tecnico3vinia

Your best bet is to search the top performing and/or best-selling products for curly/afro hair and note the ingredients they use.  There is someone on the board, I forget who, unfortunately, who mentioned in the past that they have lots of experience formulating for curly/kinky hair.

[MarkBroussard]

@Deborav58

Just add Geogard Ultra as is … the pH will generally drift downward over 24 hours.  If necessary you can adjust the pH at that time and factor that into your final formula.

[MarkBroussard]

@boihoneyshop

One thing you need to make absolutely certain:  That you own the IP to the formula under all circumstances.  It is not uncommon for a CM to tell you that your formula needs to be modified (perhaps it does, perhaps it does not).  And, if you do not specify it the contract will declare that the CM owns the formula IP and you have an exclusive license to use it with a buyout clause so you are locked in to that CM and don’t have a formula that you can have manufactured elsewhere if the relationship with the CM does not work out.

[MarkBroussard]

@helenhelen

They are both specifying the Granactive Retinoid from Grant Industries which is 90% Isosorbide / 10% Hydroxypinacolone Retinoate, so in both cases the Isosorbide should preceed Retinoate in the LOI.  In both cases they are probably referring to using 5% and 2% of the retinoid blend, not 5% Retinoate.  Both of these would appear to be improperly labeled.  

[MarkBroussard]

@Farah:

Well, there are many variables here that can have an effect/impact.  The products could be poorly formulated, improperly or insufficiently preserved, packaged in containers that may facilitate contamination in use or a combination of all of these factors.  So, you would really need to look at the recalls on a case-by-case basis to understand the potential reasons for the failure and I don’t think you can generalize conclusions unless there is some obvious trend with a particular preservative ingredient being a common component of the failed products.  Since preservation is more than simply adding a preservative(s) ingredient to a formula, you don’t know if that is also a contributing factor.

But generally, I think if you take a look at the number of products that are recalled as a percentge of the total number of products out in the marketplace it is probably a very small fraction of a percent.

The other factor is that it is possible for virtually anyone to get a cosmetic product on the market with no registration required with the FDA.  So, you have a lot of products on the marketplace formulated by people who may not really know what they are doing, nor the regulations and perhaps those products were not properly preserved nor properly tested.  For instance, in another thread there was a discussion of the recall of a nipple cream for nursing mothers that was preserved with phenoxyethanol and chlorsphenesin.  That product should never have been on the market as it allowed for infants to ingest the preservatives orally.

[MarkBroussard]

@Rockstargirl

It’s always the client’s decision.  Just advise her of the issue with using EO’s and the potential for irritation and let her choose.  It is not unusual for a client to make a bad choice despite your best advice, but really not worth your time and energy to try to convice them otherwise beyond advising them of the issues and options. 

But, do make sure that you have a means of securing additional payment for you to redo the formula with fragrance oils once they realize they should have taken your advice to begin with.  Generally, if a client has to pay more money for you to correct their poor decision against your advice, from that point forward, they heed your counsel.

[MarkBroussard]

Interesting story about Insulin.  The original inventors intended for Insulin to be made widely available at cost + modest profit since they wanted all who needed Insulin to be able to purchase it inexpensively and it was readily available.  They licensed the patent for $1.00.  Little did they know that 100 years later Insulin would be sold for price gouging-level profit margins.

[MarkBroussard]

@Microformulation … LOL!

Reminds me of a guy who contacted me who wanted to develop a spray for the soles of the feet to cool them as you walked on the hot sand at the beach.

[MarkBroussard]

Beeswax, Rice Bran Wax, Acticire MB are my favorites to work with.  Beeswax imho is the best.

I personally don’t pay much attention to Vegan, particularly as it relates to Beeswax.  The bees are going to make beeswax regardless of whether or not it is used in a product, so no harm in the process.  For those products containing Beeswax as the only animal-derived ingredient, I prefer to use the term “Beegan”

[MarkBroussard]

https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/potential-contaminants-cosmetics/14-dioxane-cosmetics-manufacturing-byproduct

You can make perfectly good cosmetic products without using PEGs.  But, if you do, they are safe

[MarkBroussard]

@Dazed

Either system will work for you.  Select that one to best matches with your marketing objectives.

[MarkBroussard]

mikethair said:

MarkBroussard said:

@mikethair

Let them tell you what they want disclosed is generally how it works.

Good luck.

OK, but what if they want everything at the 30% stage?

I’m thinking that the stage disclosure process and limits should be stipulated as part of a legal agreement.

Mike, you can stage their due diligence.  Start first with the financial and marketing information.  If that passes their test, then proceed on to formula technical information.

You should negotiate a right of first refusal in the event the want to sell their 30% stake and/or you have the right to approve the potential buyer so you dont’ wind up somewhere down the road with a partner that you never intended to be a partner.

Your attorney and/or investment banker should be able to guide you through this process.

[MarkBroussard]

@Dazed

Phenethyl Alcohol (1%) + Pentylene Glycol (2%) + Geogard Ultra (1%)

[MarkBroussard]

@PhilGeis

Because it has a slippery feel like an oil

[MarkBroussard]

Dazed said:

MarkBroussard said:

@Dazed:

PE9010 + Sodium Benzoate + Pentylene Glycol + pH < 5.5 should do the trick for you. 

Thank you, do you think it could pass without the Pentylene Glycol? I’m trying to limit to 3 preservatives if possible. What would you recommend is a good starting point on the percentages? End use is in a 8oz pump so it could be used all over the body.

PE9010 (1%) + Sodium Benzoate (0.3%) + Pentylene Glycol (2%).

You mentioned both Whole Foods and EWG … are you trying to conform to both or are you trying to get EWG certification?

[MarkBroussard]

@Squinny  @Graillotion

There is a range of hyaluronic acid molecular weights.  Generally, anything below 200 kDa mw you can add to the water phase pre-emulsification w/o issue.  Any higher mw, you’re better off adding post-emulsification.  As I said, homogenization will shread the HA.

[MarkBroussard]

@Dazed

Are you specifically formulating to Whole Foods standards or any other standard?  Your channel distribution strategy may affect your preservative options that are acceptable unless you are going DTC.

You could consider:  Phenethyl Alcohol + Pentylene Glycol + Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate 

[MarkBroussard]

@Squinny

If you use a hydrosol or Aloe Vera you increase the chances of contamination, but at your very high load of MgCl and since this is just for personal use I would not be concerned.

[MarkBroussard]

@mikethair

I used to do M&A and private equity work.  Generally, it is up to the investor to provide to you the information they require to make an investment decision.  If it is a passive investor, they may focus primarily on financial information required to make their investment decision.

If they are eventually going to take a majority stake, then they will be looking for more detailed information on the technical side.

Let them tell you what they want disclosed is generally how it works.

Good luck.

[MarkBroussard]

@Graillotion

Best to add it post-emulsification:

(1)  HMW HA can interfere with the formation of the emulsion, particularly with liquid crystal emulsifiers

(2)  Homogenization shreads the HA, so you no longer have HMW HA if you add it pre-emulsification, pre-homogenization