[Margaret2]

Here is what New Directions Aromatics says on their web-site about their Fragrance Oils. Thus my asking about parabens & phthalates in F.O.s and it’s what caused me to wonder why there are (or ever were) preservatives in FOs. It did not make sense to me….

I’m going to start putting “Plutonium-free!” on my soaps. ?

Our Fragrance Oils are specifically formulated for both skin and hair care formulations, and many are suitable for soaps and candles. The scents are extremely rich, complex, and long-lasting. Fragrance Oils are synthetically compounded, and should not be confused with the 100% natural Essential Oils used in Aromatherapy. Please note that all our Fragrance Oils are paraben-free and phthalate-free which makes them safer for you and the environment, but may give a slightly milder throw in soaps and candles.

[Margaret2]

Aha!!! Thanks for the explanation, you have cleared up my confusion.

You are fine humans. 

[Margaret2]

I think the suggestion about the 316 stainless steel (s/s) is about the type of s/s the asparagus cooker I use, and suggested to you, is made of. It is not the best it seems, as it might get damaged by highly acidic or salty items. If you ‘google’ 316 stainless steel, you’ll see what I mean.

[Margaret2]

Oh……?. I guess I better look for something else. Sigh…

[Margaret2]

Keep your eyes peeled at garage sales, yard sales, estate sales and thrift shops for stainless steel jugs or other items to use as a mixing vessel. As long as it is NOT insulated, otherwise it might take ages for your emulsion to cool off. At least, that is my experience. 

[Margaret2]

I now use a stainless steel asparagus cooker (google it) to mix by emulsions because there’s no danger  of breakage and it is good for sanitizing. I don’t make more than 1-1.5 liter at a time, so the 2 liters asparagus cooker is fine for me. 

Try to get one with a spout, for pouring.

I also use canning jars to separately heat my water & oil phases. I have thermometers in them and lids. The lids have a hole drilled into the tops and a thermometer is inserted through this hole into each jar. I have no noticeable loss of water via evaporation using this method, I have often weighed the jar before and after heating, no mass difference was noted. 

I pre-heat my asparagus cooker by pouring boiling water over the OUTSIDE of it, wearing rubber gloves of course. I have pre-sanitized the asparagus cooker of course, now it’s being pre-heated with boiling water being poured over it, just before I am ready to make the emulsion. This ensures the pot is warm, so the oil phase doesn’t cool off and ‘freeze’ by being poured into a cool mixing vessel, dig?

Use a REALLY flexible SANITIZED silicone  spatula (1 piece is better for cleaning it afterwards) to clean out your oil phases jar if you think you’re losing too much from it sticking to the jar. I tend to reserve a very small amount of my water phase to rinse out the oil phase jar, when I am combining them in the asparagus cooker, to do the stick blending, to create the emulsion. 

The above works very well for me but I am only making small batches,  not like the ‘big boys’ making vats of product. 

[Margaret2]

 OOPS. I did not mean the height of the jar is causing the problem. I suggested you use 3 of the same types of jars to make 3 samples to figure out what’s wrong. Size of the jar depends on how much product you’ll be making.

However, it’s great if it does NOT jump out of your jar while you’re mixing it. 

You seem to be getting air into your formula, like I was a couple of years ago. SO, experiment with different speeds on your mixer AND different mixer blades IF you have them, but use the SAME SIZE of jar while you’re doing this trial. 

So long as the jars are the same, you can then compare to see WHICH speed &/or blade gave you the most dense (LESS fluffy) product. 

Voila a photo when I was experimenting with 2 different blades, but the SAME mass of lotion, same formula, etc. 

Left was the EMULSION blade, right was the STANDARD blade. 

I hope this is clearer now? 

[Margaret2]

From Lotion Crafter web-site. 

Summary, MORE OR LESS:
acidic pH, use disodium EDTA
basic pH use tetrasodium EDTA

Generally, the choice of which product to use is determined by the pH of your product, but this is not a hard and fast rule. Disodium EDTA is commonly used in neutral to mildly acidic products, like most creams, lotions, and neutral pH liquid soaps and shampoos.

Generally, the choice of which product to use is determined by the pH of your product. Tetrasodium EDTA is recommended for alkaline products, like most handcrafted soap.  It can also be used in creams, lotions and surfactant systems.

[Margaret2]

Maybe the people who are prone to develop eczema should just apply a light lotion after showering/bathing, since those are closer to our skin’s pH than the soap. 

I  wonder if in the DT article the hot water was exacerbating the peoples’ sensitivity to soap’s pH? 

[Margaret2]

Hold the blender at roughly 45 degrees. 

Sounds like the blender or the blade is pulling air into your emulsion. That’ll make it unstable. I learned this through many lotion failures ?.

Also,  moving the blender up & down in your mixing vessel can pull air into what you’re mixing ☹️.

I would probably make 3 batches of the same thing one day, and use the stick blender at DIFFERENT speeds, but for the exact same length of total mix  time. 

If you have different blades, that’ll be yet another comparison trial you’ll have to do, same day, same formula, same mass, etc.  

Mix your lotions (or whatever) in the same sort of container, like 500 mls. canning jars  so that you can SEE  if there is a difference in the resulting height of your lotion.  Make sure you label your jars according to the speed setting you used for THAT sample, ja? 

The lotion that is probably going to be the most stable in your trial is the one that has the least volume (height) in your jar. The speed & blade that was used for THAT lotion sample is the one that will most likely be the best for that formula.

I went through this issue too until I settled on the proper attachment for my stick blender by doing the above, and noticing which bladed yielded a NON-FLUFFY lotion (I only use what’s known as the standard cutting blade) AND the proper stick blender (A minipro by Dynamic. Made in France). 

After I figured out which blade to use, and the best speed to use, and for how long to mix, all has been ‘golden’ regarding MY emulsions. 

[Margaret2]

I use a Minipro immersion blender made by Dynamic mixers. (www.dynamicmixers.com if you’re in the U.S.)  Made in France. 

I LOVE it. 

This line of mixers is meant for the restaurant business BUT since I only make at most 1 liter of lotion/cream at a time, this is perfect for me.

I used to have LOTS of lotion failures when using a table top kitchen blender, At the recommendation of LOTS of good folks on this forum, I searched for something better.  Since I bought this immersion blender, NO failures at all. 

The blade is removable for cleaning, as is the shaft/stainless steel tube. Superbly easy to clean.

It is more expensive than other immersion blenders, like what you’d find in a department store, BUT it’s worth it, in my opinion.

[Margaret2]

I wonder why there are bars of soap in the above list with pH OVER 10?   My soaps (saponified fats) are 9.5 or so (I use pH strips. Yes, yes, I know, not as accurate as a pH meter but I can’t afford a real one, a lab-grade pH meter over $800).

The syndet bars that are pH 10 and over have a superscript, but we can’t read what that means from this chart. Hmmmm….

[Margaret2]

I think @MarkBroussard, most of us here could “work up a good lather” using a bar vs. liquid  by reading the B.S. claims on many cosmetic products..get it? Get it? ?

[Margaret2]

Thanks @MarkBroussard and Joggling @Perry !

[Margaret2]

We were VERY happy to find out ‘the brains is back’!!. We’ve listened to the new episodes.  You & Valerie are very generous with your time, to do podcasts. Thanks for that!

[Margaret2]

What about a syndet bar for washing dogs that contained THESE ingredients, adjusted to a final pH of 7?:

Sodium Cococylisethionate 65% (without stearic acid in the SCI)
Cocamidopropyl Betaine 13%
Sodium Cocosulfate 10%
Stearic Acid 2%
Cetyl Alcohol 3%
Glycerin 2%
Sodium Lactate (60% solution) 3%
Lavender buds (for a little scent) 2%

[Margaret2]

I’m still wondering why there are no shampoo bars i.e. syndet bars for dogs. Any ideas?

[Margaret2]

@anniemarie. Aren’t those Lion’s Market items bars of soap? 

[Margaret2]

@Perry you are NOT snarky at all. I doubt you could be, from what I’ve read and heard of you (on your podcasts). 

And, I don’t use any pixie dust myself (like aloe vera etc), in what I make. 

Yes, I’ve heard lots of silly things from people who are well-educated, and it surprises me, often. I guess this veterinarian was also fooled. I would have expected someone with an educational background like the vet would have read REAL research before adding it to her book. 

[Margaret2]

@MarkBroussard and @Perry

I assumed that since the writer of the book I mentioned above is a veterinarian, she might be LESS likely to fall for claims ingredients.  

I don’t use pixie dust in the stuff I make. 

I guess it’s like the saying goes: No one’s easier to fool than yourself, and don’t eat yellow snow. 

[Margaret2]

From a book written by a veterinarian,  Karen L. Campbell, so she’s probably looked into appropriate literature for her information.
The book title: The Pet lover’s guide to cat and dog skin diseases….
Aloe vera kills bacteria and moisturizes skin
Oatmeal relieves itching and moisturizes skin (and is GREAT in cookies!)

[Margaret2]

That’s just regular soap, ja?:  Saponified Coconut*, Olive*, Castor*, Sunflower*, Jojoba*, and Rice Bran Oils*, Neem Oil*, Organic Aloe Vera Juice, Lemongrass Essential Oil, Spearmint Essential Oil, Sulfur, Stearic Acid & Vitamin E. (*Organic).

  I’m referring to shampoooooo bars, made with surfactants like sodium cocoyl isethionate, sodium cocosulfate and cocamidopropyl betaine. 

[Margaret2]

I”ve used both stearic acid and sodium lactate, in different batches of soap, same size, same fragrance, made the same day. I can’t tell which is harder  .  

[Margaret2]

My niece says her head gets very itchy with most shampoos.

 I agree with Belassi that it may be SLS because I made shampoo bars WITHOUT SLS, sent them to my niece, and her head is not itchy from them.  (She had not done anything else to possibly correct the head itchiness.) 

Yes, I know, this is only a sample size of one. 

[Margaret2]

Rock on chelators AND Perry!  ?