MakingSkincare
Forum Replies Created
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Zink I just replied to your question in this post: https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/613/foundation-color-formula-reference-/p1
(Yes pre-dispersed iron oxides would make things a little easier rather than milling your own pigments). -
@Zink I’m glad you found my original suggestion in this post
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/460/formulating-a-concealer-pt-2-using-a-rock-tumbler-and-ensuring-optimal-powder-oil-mixing-advice/p1of using Creasperse useful -https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/800/pre-mixed-iron-oxide-blends-for-simplified-stick-concealer-formulation-e-g-creasperse#Item_1 It is unfortunate, however, that it has a fairly high MOQ. Your only option might be to make your own blend. I posted a few links in my comments above which might help. Also hiring an oil paint/acrylic paint trained artist who can help teach you color theory may prove useful. -
Yes I agree about the beeswax which will also make your lotion feel “heavy” and very occlusive on the skin.
There’s a lot you can do to reduce greasiness, for example, you can add dry flo and replace the oils/butters with dry feeling esters such as dicaprylyl carbonate, dodecane and increase the level of cyclomethicone.It would really help to have your formula in full in % so we can advise properly. If you do not wish to publicly post it here, feel free to PM it to me.(Sorry Mark I’m not sure about floramac 10’s solubility in aqueous systems such as the formula in your post). -
Hi Betty
Looks like Bob and Perry have already given their advice.You use the word “desperate” to start your own beauty line. If timewise it’s urgent then I’d advise hiring a formulator. But otherwise you could try and learn yourself but this would likely take a few years of study and experimenting. -
Floramac 10 (Ethyl Macadamiate) would be great here - it’s silky, dry feeling and gives a similar skin feel to cyclomethicone and has slip/spreadability of IPM/IPP.
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Yes totally agreed Mark, there’s a lot more to effective preservation than just added a preservative and hoping it will do the job. In a different thread in this forum I posted this checklist which might prove useful for any newbies reading this thread:-
1. Minimise sources of energy for microbial growth (aka “bug food”) - eg fruit, botanicals, tea, lecithin, mineral water, milk of any kind, honey, hydrosols, floral waters, aloe vera, extracts, protein, clay, powders, starches etc - reduce these to a tiny %.2. Double check against this webpage whether your preservative is truly broad spectrum -http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/3. Add glycerin and other polyols4. Add 0.2% disodium EDTA into the heated water phase5. Switch to packaging which the customer can’t contaminate easily - jars are the worst for contamination.6. Reduce the pH to between 4 and 5 if possible.7. Sanitise your equipment with 70% IPA8. Use distilled, deionised or purified water, not tap/faucet or mineral water9. If your water isn’t micro checked, heat and hold your water phase at 75c/167f for 20 minutes - this will kill some of the non-endospore forming bacteria. (If your preservative can withstand heat put it in the heated water phase rather than the heated oil phase. This improves preservative contact with the water phase so that it is not partitioned in the water-oil interface).10. If possible micro test all of your raw materials.11. Use good GMP - http://www.mariegale.com/good-manufacturing-practices/gmp-basics.html12. Don’t rely on sight, smell - one can put 100,000 bacteria into a milliliter of water and the water will appear to the naked eye to be crystal clear and usually won’t smell bad. Most cosmetics tested have counts ranging into the tens of thousands or millions of cells per milliliter have subtle or no aesthetic differences from sterile samples. The only way to know if your preservative system is working is to get it tested. -
It’s a nightmare milling pigments and colour matching. Why not go for pre-dispersed pre-blended - Creasperse do a nice range eg Light Fair Beige CP208 or Creasperse AF Medium Date Brown CP209.
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A combo of surfactants is usually used for mildness. Most APGs have high pHs so they’ll need to be brought down.
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I hear you Belassi, sodium benzoate failed patch tests so if we use it it is at a low level.
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I meant above to refer to these pre-blended examples: Creasperse Light Fair Beige CP208 or Creasperse AF Medium Date Brown CP209 - saves you adding red, black, white and yellow.
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They are usually made up of red, black, white and yellow iron oxides. I would recommend pre-dispersed coated pigments rather than trying to mill yourself but even with that colour matching can be a pain. We don’t do colour matching in our factory but luckily managed to find a preblended dispersion which made making BB and CC creams much easier - it’s called Creasperse from The Innovation Company.
Some links below if you wanted to create your own foundation:-
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Salicylic acid would take care of bacteria, if added at 0.5% and the pH is less than 4. The glycols help reduce water activity. The EDTA also helps the preservative. The inci name “Parfum” could be naticide or p-Anisic Acid/Dermosoft® 688 eco.
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Leucidal has been discussed in this forum in the past and I’m afraid the chemists here (including myself) didn’t really have anything positive to say about it.Don’t forget there is much more to effective preservation than just adding a preservative.1. Minimise sources of energy for microbial growth (aka “bug food”) - eg fruit, botanicals, tea, lecithin, mineral water, milk of any kind, honey, hydrosols, floral waters, aloe vera, extracts, protein, clay, powders, starches etc - reduce these to a tiny % (eg 0.1%). This is very important.2. Double check against this webpage whether your preservative is truly broad spectrum -http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/3. Add glycerin and other polyols4. Add 0.2% disodium EDTA into the heated water phase5. Switch to packaging which the customer can’t contaminate easily - jars are the worst for contamination.6. Reduce the pH to between 4 and 5 if possible (depending on your formulation).7. Sanitise your equipment with 70% IPA8. Use distilled, deionised or purified water, not tap/faucet or mineral water9. If your water hasn’t been micro checked, do heat and hold your water phase at 75c/167f for 20 minutes - this will kill some of the non-endospore forming bacteria. (If your preservative can withstand heat put it in the heated water phase rather than the heated oil phase. This improves preservative contact with the water phase so that it is not partitioned in the water-oil interface).10. If possible micro test all of your raw materials.11. Use good GMP - http://www.mariegale.com/good-manufacturing-practices/gmp-basics.html12. Don’t rely on sight, smell - one can put 100,000 bacteria into a milliliter of water and the water will appear to the naked eye to be crystal clear and usually won’t smell bad. Most cosmetics tested have counts ranging into the tens of thousands or millions of cells per milliliter have subtle or no aesthetic differences from sterile samples. The only way to know if your preservative system is working is to get it tested.
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Welcome to the forum Belassi.
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This discussion should be helpful in terms of finding the right stirrer - https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/95/industrial-mixer-for-small-scale-manufacturer-emulsions#Item_25
Stirrers generally don’t come with clamps but you can ask the supplier for a suitable stand and bosshead. You’ll also need a bosshead to attach your clamp which holds your beaker to your stand. -
You’re welcome. Forgot to mention that wattage also matters. Best of luck, let us know what you decide.
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I can’t seem to edit my post but wanted to add that torque (ncm) is really more important than rpm as you can’t reach high rpm without a decent torque. Most lab stirrers only go to 2,000 rpm and then we use a homogeniser (usually a silverson) to get the particle size as small as possible.
So a dremel with 33,000 rpm isn’t realistically going to get to anywhere close to that speed if even the expensive lab stirrers with high torque struggle just to reach 2,000 rpm.If you don’t want to buy a lab stirrer, my advice would be to buy a large catering stick blender eg waring big stik to create the emulsion and then switching to a kitchenaid to stir during cool down. But if you’re making small batches - you mention 100g in one of your comments then I’d just stick to with ordinary kitchen stick blender.As long as you choose the right emulsification system incl stabilisers you can create emulsions which will pass stability tests without the need for homogenisation.Don’t forget, you can also choose emulsifiers which don’t need high mixing speed eg sepigel can just be hand stirred. -
johnsutw - it really depends on the volume and thickness of what you’re trying to mix - my heidolph stirrer (RZR2041) has a torque of 520 - it can handle viscous emulsions ranging up to 2kg.
Caframo is another brand - torque ranges depending on the model, their ultra torque BDC1850 goes to 565 ncm with viscosity at 90,000. Their universal BDC3030 model has torque at 339 ncm.IKA’s stirrers range, the eurostar 60 digital which we have in the lab has a torque of 60 ncm - it won’t stir viscous emulsions without giving an error message and needing some occasional rest!!We also have CAT stirrers in the lab (although 4 of them are broken!) - the R100C (150 ncm) and even better the R100CT (600 ncm) have higher torque than the IKA and the CT version can handle stirring viscous clay masks. The 50D CAT was too weak to stir viscous emulsions. -
Nasrins - some blends like miracare slb 365, iselux SLC, Tego sulfosuccinate DO 75 can hold significant amounts of oil.
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You could try Ammonium Cocoyl Isethionate
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tsemhoi re your question on “crosspolymer”, if you’re a DIY crafter, you could try the EL61 or EL40 from lotioncrafter (or eg DC9045 etc if you can get hold of the Dow Corning range). They are well worth experimenting with - give a great skin feel and some viscosity. A good inclusion is sepigel 305 (thepersonalformulator) as they can be tricky to emulsify.
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You could try indco and mixerdirect as they have a variety of shafts and blades. To make the micelles as small as possible for a more stable emulsion you’ll need a saw tooth disk impeller/dissolver/dispersion blade. They come in various forms - I’d choose the one which has local high shear with little pumping. And then get an anchor/paddle attachment for cool down.
Do check the torque (ncm) of your proposed stirrer. The higher the torque, the better if you are making viscous emulsions or large quantities. (If your emulsion is viscous then there is no point getting a high rpm stirrer if it’s lack of torque means that it can hardly move the emulsion). -
Yes, definitely agreed Bob. Most of my clients ask for duplication of an existing product and this can be achieved even without an ingredients list.
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It looks like they saponified the shea butter and coconut oil with KOH (made liquid soap) and then added the neem extract, betaine, lavender and salt.
If you’d like to learn how to make liquid soap I’d recommend this group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/liquid.soapmakers/ -
Unfortunately there is a LOT of scaremongering in this industry so this means it’s tricky to decipher which ingredients are considered safe. Cosmetic chemists use http://www.cir-safety.org which provides unbiased, scientific, expert advice on cosmetic ingredients and, the European Scientific Committee for Consumer Safety is a politically and commercially impartial panel of doctors and toxicologists, whose job it is to review safety data for materials - you can see their reports/opinions on ingredients here http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_safety/opinions/index_en.htm.