[majibo]

Hi Abdullah
I’m sure crystals are Salicylic acid. Salicylic acid is not soluble in water. You should use fair amount of solvents like Ethanol, Propylene Glycol, Propanediol… Glycols should be at least 1:10 ratio. You can search in the forum there are lots of information about this ingredient. You may choose to dissolve it in oils, too. 
They can’t dissolve even if you heat them, so don’t bother. 

[majibo]

Hi Abdullah, thanks for your response.
Below, i’m sending all the info i can find online. 
The price is around 1700EUR.

I wonder if all homogenizers has this PTFE part? Or it’s just this type of homogenizers? The producer told me to change it when needed, they say it is a comsumable part(which costs 48EUR) but i’m not gonna be happy if i spend 48EUR every 3-4 months. 

Do you think i should request to change it with a new one or should i completely change the brand and the model?

Display	Scale
Speed with Zero-Load (rpm))	10000～ 30000
Process Range H2O(mL)	10 ～ 40000
Applicable aggregates	Ø4~Ø23 mm
Noise Level (dB)	72 dB (30,000 rpm)
Motor	AC
supply voltage (V)	220V 50/60Hz
Input / Output Power (W)	500
Weight (kg)	1.3
Contact Material	316L Stainless Steel / PTFE
Dimensions (W x L x H in mm)	70X70X255

[majibo]

Hello, may be you can try symbio®solv clear plus MB by Evonik. 

[majibo]

chemicalmatt said:

@majibo You’ll want to heed the advice of @grapefruit22 in reducing the polyol content there, but I think your main problem here is too much reliance on so very little emulsifier and hoping xanthan gum can carry the burden of rheology stabilization. The total polyglyceride fatty acid (PEFA) content of Croda’s NatraGem EW (try to use correct spelling next time, please) is less than 2.0% solids in your formulation. This is a mixed/multi ester PEFA, the least likely to stand on its own. You need a buddy emulsifier in there. I’d employ a discrete monoester PEFA such as Polyglcyeryl-4 Stearate, Polyglcyeryl-6 Oleate, etc. or another chemistry such as a fatty acid carboxylate. I just presented a paper on this subject so I know whereof I speak. Croda’s lit - like  so many other specialty chemical suppliers’ - must always be subject to critical analysis.  In this case that NatraGem system will not work on it’s own without a helper. Finally, xanthan gum is another substance abuse problem among cosmetic formulators and I think there needs to be an intervention. 

@chemicalmatt Hello, thank you very much for your informative comments!

Ok, so i thouhgt NatraGem EW would handle different oil percentages with different polarity of oils-that’s what Croda told me-.  My mistake was thinking about percentages, i thougt this emulsifier would handle %6 percent of oils. You are totally right about being critical about what suppliers say, even if it is a mixture, i’ll never rely on just one emulsifier now on. I should probably dive into emulsifiers deeper, do you have any source to advice for me to learn? Thanks for the co-emulsifier advices. 

This formula should meet Organic&Vegan standarts so i’m not sure what more option i have about replacing Xanthan Gum. I’d rather use Sclerotium Gum but i couldn’t find it in here, that’s why i had to rely on Xanthan Gum. 

Thanks again and again for your time!

[majibo]

grapefruit22 said:

No, I’m still thinking 20% propanediol is the problem, but you need it to dissolve the ferulic acid. As far as I know, Ethyl Ferulate has only two manufacturers:
https://www.gfn-selco.de/en/productsearch/ethyl-ferulate-cos
https://www.gfn-selco.de/en/products/products-a_z/ethyl-ferulate-natural
You can try also ethyl ferulate already dissolved in sunflower oil:
https://www.rahn-group.com/en/cosmetics/product/9/

Thank you very much for your time, info and kind sharings!  i’ll give another try for dissolving ferulic in a lower percentage. May be i was mistaken, i’ll retry it. 
I’ll try to reach the distributors of the products.
 Also see the other serums without propanediol if they fail. I’ll keep updated here. Again, thanks a lot for your responds!

[majibo]

grapefruit22 said:

Maybe you could try Ethyl Ferulate (ferulic acid ester) instead of ferulic acid? In emulsions according to the manufacturer you can use it at 2%. Even if it is optimistic, 0.2% should not be a problem.

Thanks for the advice! I’ll check with the suppliers if they have Ethyl Ferulate. So do you think Ferulic Acid may caused the problem?

[majibo]

Rockstargirl said:

Is ethyl ascorbic acid not stable on its own? I’m curious why you need the ferulic acid? For knowledge too please!

It is stable on its own, no need to add it to this formula for protecting the formula, but if you use L-ascorbic, then you may want to use it for stabilisation. I guess you may get antioxidant benefits if you adjust to a specific pH.

[majibo]

grapefruit22 said:

PROPANEDIOL 20 - I think this amount of propanediol can lower the viscosity of your formula and possibly contribute to its destabilization.
What benefits do you expect from ferulic acid? If you want to improve vitamin C stability, I don’t think it is necessary in this case because you are using a stable form of vitamin C.

Thanks for responding! 
Normally i don’t like mixing a lot of actives or ingredients but It is just what my customer asked for, as you mentioned, there is no need to add ferulic acid in this case. 
I used propanediol for dissolving Ferulic acid, i made a couple of tests and with this ratio i was able to obtain a clear solution when mixed into water.

I have 2 more emulsified serums with this base, has no propanediol in it, but their samples are not old enough to see if there will be destabilization. I’ll see if the lab discovers before me.

Do you see any other uncompetable ingredients, weird percentages or a major error in the formula? 

[majibo]

Hello ketchito! I wasn’t feeling comfortable about not using a preservative system, but now i’m sure i have to. Thanks a lot for your warning.

What are your thoughts about this emulsifier system? Have you seen the videos and does this structure looks stable to you, too? If you share your comments, i’d be appriciate it!

[majibo]

(Sorry for my late reply) Good point indeed! I sent a sample without any preservative and asked the laboratory to conduct a challenge test. Surprisingly, the sample passed the test. I attribute this success to the low water activity and the high load of zinc oxide in the formula. Therefore, I’m contemplating not using any preservatives. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks for the ideas, so I’ll try, C12-15 and cocoate and also increasing the HCO, see if one of them make a big difference. Dimethicone sure will do a big difference but i’ll try that too 😀

[majibo]

Totally agree with you about convincing the customer! You gave me a great idea, i’ll make 2 samples and one will contain Dimethicone, and one without. Let’s see how they react 🙂 Thanks a lot for the advices!

Any other suggestions on this formula?

[majibo]

In Latin 🙂

Dimethicone would be a good choice, but the customer i work for is looking for more natural ingredients. I have no problem with synthetic ingredients, as you can see there are some in my formula, but you know some customers hear some ingredients and don’t like them in their product 😀 Do you have other more “natural” recommendations? 🙂

[majibo]

Hi fekher, thanks for your attention and your reply! The rest is Aqua as you’ve guessed. “q.s: quantum satis”, means “as much as needed” or “sufficient amount”. In this case it is %23,7 🙂