[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

I use GDL for all of my bath formulations but I know with eczema prone skin they recommend using the least amount of ingredients but I still am confused by the use of SLS. Dose is the medicine or poison…but with the availability of newer more gentle surfactants, maybe its a cost consideration. Why spend millions on testing a new formula when it works.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

They use such a harsh surfactant, I’m confused at how these globally popular brands can refer to their products as gentle and safe for eczema when they are not. One gentle cleanser I used contains CABP and the cetaphil contains a known irritant. However, without extensive testing I can’t market my facial cleanser as gentle or better than these brands. But each individual ingredient is repudiated for its gentleness whereas the surfactants used by major brands touting safety is not.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Experimenting would be much better than duping the formula. I have a lot of reason why but I’ll do my best to give an idea of what I would do:

1. Mineral oil (I would sub something lighter like jojoba or squalane, unless you need a very occlusive lipid, you can prob use less than 10%)

2. Water (Usually 50%+ of a cream recipe)

3. Beeswax (Usually less than 4% of a cream recipe but could be more)

4. Ceresin (Never used but for a special treat try a floral wax)

5. Sodium Borate (Haven’t made soap before)

6. Stearyl Alcohol (Nice powdery feel and co emulsifier, usually well under 10% of recipe)

7. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (Not the most gentle cleanser, try subbing SCI at around 3-5%)

8. Fragrance (Eliminate, not worth the potential allergen although floral wax can introduce allergens it has a strong scent and has been gentle for my sensitive skin, usually fraction of a percent)

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Those are beautiful, I actually wanted to approach hotels for branded amenities. My samples are packaged beautifully so I could sell a sampler package on Etsy, but then I realized they were nice enough for hotel rooms. The benefit is the travelers. You might not be popular in one area but there’s always a market somewhere.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

The aloe is likely less than 1% of the formula and the extracts probably don’t equal much more which is why there is a preservative that mixes well with oils but no emulsifier (unless there’s a solubalizer which can be included in the extracts). It has vitamin A so it looks like a “retinol” oil serum? Are you trying to copy the formula? If so you can remove half of the formula including the aloe. most extracts, you can use antioxidants like vitamin e to elongate shelf life. Also you can eliminate the top allergens like lavender. PS. Almost all of the ingredients are for claims only, you can always tell when those ingredients come after the fragrance which is rarely more than a fraction of 1%. Some do use more than 1% but usually in a wash off formula. But also all of those extracts attract bacteria so not worth it for claims. Its better to have a good product with decent marketing to overcome the bias towards fancy ingredients.

• This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by  MaidenOrangeBlossom.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

The cosmetic industry has been trending in that direction. I’d like to formulate it for myself. I’ve been doing something similar for years now by mixing amla, sodium hyaluranate in a capsule but these are things I had been adding to my smoothie. I’d ideally like to increase my understanding of formulating this type of supplement because that is what consumers are demanding.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Film formers like seaweed or gelling agents cationic guar, tacky humectants like glycerin are my fav. Although slightly tacky in amounts over 8%, its worth it. The stickiness goes away but leaves skin soft instead of tight. Gel moisturizers are my favorite and I make several products with a gel like texture using hylauronic acid.

• This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  MaidenOrangeBlossom.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

My deo’s were horrible and very few people bought them but the few who did found me because nothing worked on their sensitive skin. I no longer have the formula but is was very simple and low ph. From what I read, acid helps with odor. At the time the scientist who wrote the blog didn’t know exactly why acids resolved BO but I think its common sense related. A lot of us grew up using vinegar to remove stubborn odor, it appears to be highly effective as deodorant too. I incorporated that into my stick deo. Along with some clay and rice powder, it worked. So if you want to experiment with something very simple, its a good start. I would always advise against baking soda, I don’t know the science behind incorporating it into deo but its so irritating to skin, that would make BO potentially worse. Especially after shaving when bacteria can go into a frenzy.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

I havent experimented with the quats or anything other than BTMS 25 and fatty alcohols. That simple combination works well. In terms of repairing hair there’s so many ingredients that work in conditioners. Technically they all rinse off but when I made the exact same formula without the ‘actives’ it was trash. I didn’t use it long enough to see if the repairing function was similar so I can’t say anything for sure. I especially love keratin but I’m not sure what the scientists would say. So many things on the market are just for claims and not much else. What are you trying to make? Is it leave in, rinse off, bar? Liquid or solid?

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Myristate: i think it can help emulsify but not sure. I haven’t work with it but I remember reading about a self emulsifying butter that contains this chemical.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Have you tried salt?

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

If you could describe what feeling you’re going for and exactly what the benchmark is, it might help. Ive only made a sugar scrub for myself but it was not an emulsion. So I have to guess here:

Kokum butter : 5% This is good, might make sugar a little hard but its non greasy but contains high levels of steric acid which has some drag and thickness

Shea butter: 15% Shea butter is also a little bit on the hard side, its a high level for a sugar scrub

Rice bran oil: 45% Very high amount even for a light oil

MCT Oil: 8.7%

Jojoba Oil: 5%

Squalane: 5% One of the best light oils you could use

Ritamulse (Glyceryl Stearate/Cetearyl Alcohol/Sodium Stearyl): 8% Might not work as a primary emulsifier

Cetyl Alcohol: 5% High amount but you may need due to high lipid levels but it is powdery and conditioning

EOs: 1.7% If you can use less, it would be slightly less irritating for sensitive skin even in wash off products

SymSave: 1%

Hemp Extract: .7%

Overall, I don’t see the sugar or emulsifying system. One trick I’ve used is BTMS 25 for an emulsifier and because its conditioning properties, its very silky and helps in application and wash off so you won’t get that greasy feel or drag from the oils. The amount of lipids and fatty alcohol seems to be extremely high. I’ve haven’t seen that before. For my sugar scrubs, even if I created an emulsion, I would start off with this, its just a shot in the dark but similar enough I think. It hasn’t been tested though but it’ll give you a broad idea:

2-3% BTMS 25 or E-Wax

2-4 % Fatty alcohol

8-10% Butter of choice

20-30%% Total Oil of choice

1% Preservative

It just depends what feel and look you are trying to achieve. This recipe below doesn’t use percentages so it’s harder for me to break down. But it looks like she uses a fair amount of oils too so you can do a benchmark on this and experiment from there. It looks like you’re going for more of a conditioning hydrating thick scrub rather than the traditional sugar and little oil type. That will tend to feel greasy and could create a drag type feel when mixed with water, water and oil doesn’t feel nice without a fatty alcohol and proper emulsifier like a conditioning type that you would find with BTMS 25.

This recipe uses steric acid, kokum contains a lot so no need to add more.

https://www.humblebeeandme.com/whipped-lemon-poppyseed-emulsified-sugar-scrub/

• This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  MaidenOrangeBlossom.

humblebeeandme.com

Whipped Lemon Poppyseed Emulsified Sugar Scrub - Humblebee & Me

This bright and juicy Whipped Lemon Poppyseed Emulsified Sugar Scrub is a new bath time favourite of mine. In addition to leaving my skin wonderfully soft, hydrated, and exfoliated, it also leaves me craving pound cake, and I definitely don’t … Continue reading

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Butter particularly will feel disgusting when mixed with water. If you
take a teeny bit of any butter on your hands and apply it with water, it
feels very tacky and greasy. Conditioners help cut that grease.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Wow I was using a lot of the most common allergens.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

I haven’t seen that. But I do know that just replacing something with an ingredient that looks good doesn’t guarantee suitability or performance. So my goal was to not only use gentle ingredients that were gentle on their own and combine it with other gentle ingredients to make something that performs just as well. The only challenge I can think of is not having a lab or access to clinical testing. Other than that just coming up with a basic formula that I can at least test on myself is a start. I wouldn’t spend any grant funds on testing something that likely could not work or wouldn’t work on my skin. My customers might be picky about natural skin care but they’re not chemists and wouldn’t understand the use of parabens and SLS. However, they are very happy with other synthetics I use like urea that I can market fairly well. I have been avoiding the use of natural and have replaced it with nature identical in the same way a used car is now a pre owned car.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Its an interesting science so I would love to learn more and the process of experimenting, I was able to learn enough to be able to blend without looking at a guide. It was not only a lot of fun but you learn more than just scent. You can learn how it impacts the formula. I’ve created some god awful nasty stuff I couldn’t give away and learned a lot. But with the right funding, I would hire a consultant in a hear beat.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Liver failure is a huge issue too. I was able to reverse some serious health issues with diabetes but these are the ones that are well studied and recommended by my doctors.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

I was debating it for months. I know for my skin the 10% appears to work better but its hard to know for sure.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

There’s biokelp ferment from lotion crafters that used to have a firm gell like texture. The film forming capacity is not quite as strong per pound as the powder itself. You can buy all kinds of cosmetic seaweed powder anywhere. And sometimes I use both. You need as little as 0.1 to create a strong anti tight feeling on the skin. But it smells terrible so you can blend humectants with seaweed. The seaweed is one of the most powerful things for skin care that I’ve ever used. It even prevents alcohol from drying skin at the smallest dose. But the most inspiring thing it does is that it completely eliminate the horrible tight feel that so many moisturizers and non lipid products have.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

I’m not sure if I can find the study I read, it was 5 years ago. My podiatrist recommended it for foot odor so there must be come reason why it works. Without the scientific knowledge, there’s no conclusion you can draw. But I’ve used it for almost 3 decades. I like it lol.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Some of my products like hair serum, feminine soap etc have ACV only because it was uncanny in its effectiveness for my skin personally. But when I began learning about ph, I realized that maybe the acid was what was effective. But all of my products have a ph of well under 5 and the customer reviews are great. Part of my marketing is no unnecessary ingredients so if ACV has a beneficial effect in lowering ph, that’s even better.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

There are CAPB that have two of the sensitizing ingredients removed but the average person might not know which products those are. But its interesting that acid is helpful because that’s the only thing that’s ever worked for me. ACV is so popular now but it wasn’t 20+ years ago when I first started using it.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

i wasn’t sure if this forum was just for extermal cosmetic formulating. Now with major cosmetic corporations offering skin gummies, it looks like it could be something a cosmetic chemist might come across.

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Would sodium lactate be comparable?

[MaidenOrangeBlossom]

Not yet but that sounds luxurious. I’m leaning towards foaming oats due to the benefits of oats on sensitive or reactive skin. Its just becoming increasingly more expensive to experiment with the tariffs affecting prices.