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@suswang8 In oil based and emulsions, it works decently at reducing the formation of high energy excited states, only you need to add a decent amount of it. If you are not sure, you can try with more powerful ones (like Tinogard TL or similar ones). 

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Dungngo said:

Ketchito : Yeah I am gonna add them into oil phase to reduce the times of switching between blender to homigenizer. I was trying to make sure that all is blended well , that’s why I blend just a few ingredients first. Btw, do you think the Olivem 1000 is too weak to emulsifier such high % of oil phase ( shea butter is up to 10%). I have never used such high % of shea butter in emulsion so I’m not quite sure if part of the problem comes from the emulsifier.

Thanks

@Dungngo I agree with @abierose, try to switch from Olivem 1000 to something like Glyceryl Stearate & PEG 100 Stearate. Olivem 1000 might not be too adequate to give you a solid O/W emulsion with the types of oils you’re using.

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@Anasmerixindia58 Check the pH of your system. Some fragrances are not suitable for every pH, so you might experience decomposition of some of their chemicals. Check also if you have a pH drift (NaOH-Sulfonic systems can become unstable). 

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@Syl I’m not sure a SEM would help you quantify. I believe you’d need to solvent extract silicones from hair once it got dry, and use some spectroscopic technique after. Another (and faster) way is to just weight down hair fibres, but you’ll need to use a very sensitive scale, and a very basic shampoo. 

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@Dungngo Why don’t you add isopropyl myristate, squalene, oils and bisabolol as part of your oil phase? In that way, you could homogenize only once which would also reduce the aeration. After homogenizing, the mixing should be reduce (this will also help you get rid of part of the air) ’till you finish your batch.

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Shams said:

@Graillotion My other ingredients are:
Emulsifiers: Stearic acid, GMS, Cetearyl alcohol, ceteareth-20
Water phase: ultrez, glycerin, betaine and Niacinamide
Oils : castor, meadofoam, isoamyl laurate
And then tocopherols, essential oil, Caprylyl glycol, green tea extract

I don’t use a chelating agent, do you think this will help?
What pH would you suggest?

@chemicalmatt I have to say it is not turning bright yellow..more of a dark beige color or a brownish yellow color.
From your experience, what ingredient do I need to avoid to prevent this Schiff base reaction? I am trying now to read more on the schiff’s base reaction..If you can make it simpler for me , that would be great.

TIA 

@Shams I also had some browning in a niacinamide serum, and I found out I needed an antioxidant, so you could try adding some tocopheryl acetate (not less than 0.5%) or a synthetic one (like Tinogard TL). 

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Congratulations Perry! And thanks a lot for always sharing.

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@Cosmetic_Chemist You might want to add a conditioning agent, like a cationic polymer or silicone.

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@Abdullah Generally speaking, above a pH of 10, you’ll have EDTA with 4 carboxylic groups available to form the complex with metallic ions, while at a pH of 4, you’ll have only 2 (still being able to form a stable complex with divalent ions, but less with ions of higher oxidation state). 

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Abdullah said:

you may use this silicone. Very close to petrolatum for TEWL but 20 times more expensive.

That graph shows that common dimethicones (350 cst, and surely the 1000 cst as well) are way more permeable than petrolatum. Increasing the chain lenght of the alkyl group in an alkyl modified silicone decreases permeability for sure, but in the practice, I haven’t seen a higher chain lenght than C16 (cetyl dimethicone), which is still somehow permeable. 

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@GeorgeBenson Unfortunately, Xanthan gum doesn’t give much yield value to suspend particles such as mica. Try with Acrylates C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer or as @chemicalmatt mentioned, try to get a sample of Synthalen W600 (for small batches, I think Lotioncrafter or Makingcosmetics might have something similar). 

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@Abdullah SLES/SLS have shorter alkyl chain lenght and lower ethoxylation, compared to common anionic emulsifiers used in emulsions (that’s why they are used more as detergents, not to mention the amount of foam they’ll cause during the emulsion process). Chances are your SLES/SLS would reside more in the water phase of your emulsion, and won’t do much to stabilize it. If you want to use an anionic surfactant to stabilize your emulsion, there are few to choose from, which are more common in those type of systems. 

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suswang8 said:

Hi, all.

I already slurry it with my glycerin, but I thought that this facilitates dispersion, not hydration?  Basically, you all seem to be saying to add it into the water phase (not after the emulsion is made) and that there is no need to wait to ensure the gum is fully hydrated?

As @@Paprik mentioned, it’s a common practice to use a glycol to disperse Xanthan gum, which would help prevent agglomerates to form (that sometimes hapens if you add it directly to water) and make hydration faster. You still need to add Xanthan gum to the water phase, so you can have it as part of the emulsion; if you add it after the emulsion, Xanthan would rather go to the free water, and will make it thicker, possibly destabilizing your system overtime. 

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@GeorgeBenson If the sign of separation is something going to the bottom (sedimentation), then you need to add a suspending agent, which is usual when you work with stearate opacifiers/pearlizers. If the type of separation is different, then there’s some other issue with your formula.

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@PassionFruit95 Fish eyes (the hard ones) are usually caused by a reaction between a cationic polymer and carbomer. Either give more time to Carbopol to disperse (don’t add the neutralizer here, but rather close to the end of the batch) and to your surfactants (especially SLES), or switch the order of Carbopol and PQ-10 (add the PQ to the water tank followed by the surfactants, and make a premix of Carbopol in a separate vessel). 

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@AZIZ_KALUNGI256 Not sure 0.2% of TEA would be enough to neutralize Stearic acid to make it work as emulsifier. Also, phenoxyethanol is not a broad spectrum preservative (you might want to add Sodium benzoate, and EDTA to boost your preservative system). 

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@Abdullah Styrene/acrylates opacifiers don’t require suspending agents. 

Common emulsion are macroemulsions (that’s why they are white; microemulsions are transparent). 

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@KimberlyLars It’d be good also to check for initial and final peroxide content, since peroxides tend to degrade in aqueous media (pH can also accelerate degradation). 

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@Abdullah To create a microemulsion, it depends on many factors, like the type of oils you’re using, surfactants that you can have access too, specific concentrations, etc. You can find some useful info in a very good book  “Microemulsions: properties and applications” (CRC Press).

Regarding opacifiers, the easiest ones are styrene/acrylates opacifiers (like Dow’s Opulyn). You also have the distearate based, but you’ll need a suspending agent to prevent sedimentation. You can work with both in cold process. 

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@PassionFruit95 Are you using also an anionic polymer (like some carbomer)? Also, when you add PQ-10, you need to mix it at high speed and for enough time for complete hydration (not less than 10 min, depending on your type of mixer). 

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@ahealy Ethylene vinyl acetate is more or less hydrophilic, which is the opposite to what you want. As @ariepfadli mentioned, waxes are good for this purpose (only the solvents you require to solubilize them are a bit too strong). There are also some silicones for the same purpose, and require more polar en less toxic solvents. 

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@Syl Indeed. Highly charged anionic tend to make hair swell more, and therefore, let dyes escape easier. Now, you could reduce this by mixing them with amphoterics, or replacing them by non ionics.

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@Abdullah As you mentioned, your Amodimethicone is a macro emulsion, so unless you manage to create a micro emulsion on your own, you won’t be able to avoid that opaque look. You could switch to a Amodimethicone microemulsion though, or if you want to make the product completely opaque, you could add an opacifier. 

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@AyaKhatib What affects the efficiency is to switch from cationic guar gum to guar gum. If you want an ingredient that both increases viscosity and mainly helps condition hair, then you should use cationic guar gum (the positive charge helps it bind negative sites on hair). Guar gum would only help you with the viscosity part, but not with the conditioning.

I agree with @Paprik that you need to change the order of addition. Usually in a formula like yours, I’d add guar gum first (preferently the cationic one for the above reasons), mix it vigurously for aprox. 20 min (depending on your mixing equipment; if you use a homogenizer, you should mix for shorter time). I’d add then SLES with medium mixing (10-20 min, till the mixture is homogenous), CAPB (with lower mixing) and Cocamide DEA (for 10 min aprox., since final viscosity only shows up pnce it’s fully mixed). Sodium chloride should be added last and as a solution.

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@michalby Because you have a liquid emulsifier, that doesn’t necessarily means you’ll have a liquid emulsion. The emulsifiers interacts with other ingredients to create the emulsion, so in this case, addind a high HLB emulsifier to an existing low HLB emulsifier can turn the lamellae into a more robust interface. Also, even though ceteareth-20 looks waxy, it is by no means similar to paraffin wax.