ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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Just out of curiosity, are you gonna test the heat protection properties of that formula with a third party lab? There’s a reason why heat protection polymers from Dow, Ashland or Croda (to name a few) were made the way they made. Natural oils and esters are good emollients, but some can be degraded at the viry high temperatures styling tools reach when in contact with hair.
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For a conventional fabric softener, between 4-6% (total actives) would be ok. With that, a 0.1-0.2% of either Rheolux 812 or Jaypol 213 would give you good viscosity. Again, I didn’t have good experience with cellulosics in fabric softener, so I wouldn’t choose any.
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I never had good experiences with celluloses in fabric softeners (the system separated over time). I’d recomment instead to use something like Rheolux 812 or Jaypol 213. You need just small amounts (depending of course on the desired viscosity).
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They have catnip in that product ????…ok, to your question, I believe they are just suspending oils using the thickening synergy between guar and xanthan gum. That’s a method as old as corrupt politicians.
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@fotis83 Since you have Sodium benzoate, I’d say less than 5 (If you had SLES in your formula, you could even be close to 6 without much trouble).
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Now, I’d be very worried to have Sodium benzoate as a sole preservative, you’d need some other preservative to broaden its range of action.
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@PattyP Not Cetyl alcohol nor Stearic acid would deliver glide, on the contrary. It’s you liquid emollients the ones responsible for that (like your natural oils or some esters or silicones). For the BTMS, you really don’t need a cationic in skin creams, since all of your conditioning agents will remain there (unlike hair conditioners, in which you need something to anchor to your hair and not be rinsed away).
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@Mssthng052 Could you try replacing Sodium bicarbonate by Sodium hydroxide, or removing it if you don’t need to raise the pH?
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Based on my experience with both, I’d say that in terms of foam and sebum removal, CAPA Ox is better, while for coacervation, viscosity and silicone deposition, CAPB would be better. Nonetheless, you should check if the difference is relevant in your system, and if you can compromise some things to favor others.
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@PattyP You don’t really need an emulsifier for that system (anhydrous). If you suspect about BTMS, you could do a knock-out test to see if the feeling is gone.
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Hi! No worries. I’d avise you to check two excelent books for the matter: 1) “Cosmetic Science and Technology: Theoretical Principles and Applications” (look up for chapter 13, “The use of polymers in cosmetic products”), and 2) Principles of Polymer Science and Technology in Cosmetics and Personal Care (chapter 6, “Synthetic polymers in cosmetics”). If you have any specific questions about the topic, you’re always welcome to pos it. Happy reading! 🙂
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@gordof Thanks for your reply. My client actually asked his fragrance manufacturer to work on the fragrance, and both prototypes that they presented were either less bloomy (the one with less linalool) or with a totaly different character and lower potency (the one without allergens). Since my client is competing against the leading brand, they cannot have a fragrance that performe worse. My bet is that its competitor focuses on overdose fragrance to win share, and when there’s a group of consumers with bad reaction, they have the magic solution: an antidandruff shampoo ????.
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@kajalthakur Check if you have either a dye or pigment. For an oil base formula, you need pigments. If you have a dye, than might be the reason of your issue.
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Thanks @MarkBroussard I didn’t know Olaplex was still using Lilial ????.
@Abdullah The level of these fragrances is around 0.50-0.55%, which is more or less standard.
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for your reply. Just to be clear, the two “problematic” products were one of my client’s shampoo, and a Pantene that we also tested…and I don’t think P&G would make any change to their formulas because of that ????. Now, they both showed to be “slightly irritating” (P&G’s being even a little higher). My point being, should we worry about it, keeping in mind that so far, only 50 clients complained out of 1 million bottles sold? As mentioned, sensitization to a fragrance component from some clients if very hard to avoid. I wish I work in P&G’s or UL’s call center, to have some reference ????
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Sorbitan stearate, similarly to Glyceryl stearate, Stearic acid and Fatty alcohols behave as structuring agents in these type of systems. That is, they will increase your viscosity (among other things).
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Since N in Guar HPTC is always in a cationic state, more N content in Guar HPTC would mean higher caionic charge and more deposition. Now, this is just solutions of water and cationic guar, but the situation is more complex when there’s an anionic surfactant (coacervates).
To the second question, using higher percentage of the lower N cationic guar to match the higher N cationic guar could be expected to work, as long as the molecular weight of both is the same (since solution viscosity in both is around 3K, that might be the case).
One thing to keep in mind is removal, since high N cationic guar will be hrder to remove from hair than low N cationic guar which, if the shampoo is not properly formulated, could lead to overconditioning (build-up).
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As @Paprik mentioned, I’d replace Glyceryl stearate by Glyceryl stearate SE…in fact, I’d remove (or drastically reduce) your polysorbate, and rely more on the Glyceryl stearate.
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I usually don’t let the guar hptc solution for too long before proceeding with the manufacture. Keep in mind that it’s not a soluble polymer, so even when hydrated, it can settle when there’s nothing to keep it in suspension. A different story happens when the surfactants come in, especially the anionics with which guar hptc forms a coacervate that then it’s dissolved by the extra surfactant. There you don’t have settling.
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According to Cosing, you could use up to 0.5% (as active material) in a leav-on. Nevertheless, due to sensitization, you could leave it up at 0.25% (as active material), and mix it with another cationic, like Behentrimonium chloride. And also use a liquid lubricant (like an ester or silicone).
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Instead of Stesreth-20, you could use Ceteareth-20, which is more easily available (not the exact HLB, but very close and a more ubiquitous ingredient). In the case of Benzalkonium Cl, it’s mostly used as an antimicrobial. Can you post the list of ingredients, to see in which position that is?
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@hakem You can remove cationic guar. As @chemicalmatt mentioned, it won’t let you spray the product, and in emulsion, cationic surfactants are actually more active than polymers.
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@hakem if you want to make sprayable detangler, just make some liquid emulsion with cationic surfactants (like the CTC you already have in your formula) and fatty alcohols. You could also add some lubricants (like esters or very fluid silicones).
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https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/1097-0010(20000915)80:12<1722::AID-JSFA708>3.0.CO;2-X#:~:text=Mixtures%20of%20xanthan%20and%20guar,dissolution%20temperature%20of%20both%20gums.
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If you added Sodium salycilate (instead of Salycilic acid, which is harder to incorporate), then you’d still be adding electrolytes. Try one sample without either Zinc sulfate or Salycilic. You could actually make only the backbone (surfactants only) to see if there’s an issue with them, or even better, a knockout test.