[Karo_lina]

ozgirl said:

Your pH is too low for the Glyceryl Stearate SE emulsifier. Your pH needs to be between 6.8 to 8.2.

https://www.ulprospector.com/en/asia/PersonalCare/Detail/1479/52287/TEGIN-Pellets-MB

My supplier said it needs pH between 5,0 - 7,5

[Karo_lina]

Abdullah said:

How does emulsion separate? 

Oil separates on top or water separates in bottom? 

And what is the ph?

pH is 5,5. As for the separation, at first there are small oil droplets in the top of the emulsion  and then oil separates on the top. 

[Karo_lina]

I don’t have  hydrogenated castor oil in my laboratory, cutting butters would not be a problem but what about viscosity? wouldn’t that make my emulsion even thinner?

[Karo_lina]

Abdullah said:

Yes it is completely safe. 

What are the ingredients?

so, won’t you have irritated and reddened skin after using a cosmetic with a pH of 3.5, twice a day for half a year?

[Karo_lina]

Camel said:

Is it an exfoliating cream? Those generally have a lower pH. I think 3.5 to 3.9 would be okay.

Here is a list from Paula’s Choice detailing the pH ranges of their various lines of products, you may find it interesting:

It is said on a label that it is moisturizing cream, and you can use it twice a day.

[Karo_lina]

Camel said:

Karo_lina said:

First of all thank you for your reply. Just 2 more questions : what will work besides  niacinamide as the “hero ingredient”? What about non-tacky humectant ? will 2% of Propylene Glycol be enough?

Is there a reason you don’t want to use niacinamide (just curious)? It is a generally well-received ingredient and relatively inexpensive. 

You can take a look at commercial toners and see what their hero ingredients are and do something similar.

CeraVe’s toner uses ceramides, hyaluronic acid and niacinamide. 

Paula’s Choice toner uses niacinamide, hyaluronic acid and chamomile.

Ole Henriksen’s toner uses glycolic acid, lactic acid, witch hazel and licorice root. 

I will use niacinamide  , but I’m creating 4 toners and I want them to be diffrent. 

[Karo_lina]

Paprik said:

Ok guys, let’s get this straight as I see some misinformation. 

If you are using an ingredient as a buffer, doesn’t matter if it’s Lactic acid, Sodium hydroxide and similar, the ingredient actually dissociate into its ions. For example, for sodium hydroxide it’s sodium ion (Na+) and hydroxyl ion (OH-). Therefore you do not get any “benefits/risks” from it. So if you are lowering pH with lactic acid, you will not have enough free (“full”) acid to work as an active ingredient. However it does look better in the label. 

Your original formula is basically slightly hydrating good smelling water. 
Not sure what is your marketing story, but I don’t think you will fulfill it and customer won’t be happy with the product as it won’t do anything. 

Glycerin can and will feel tacky, even at 5% especially if it’s the “only” ingredient in your product. Water will evaporate and leave only the glycerin. 
(it is a different story for emulsions)

My suggestion - 
Keep the water, hydrosol if happy and in budget allows, keep the glycerin at 1% and add some other non-tacky humectant (propanediol, propylene glycol, etc…), get some hero ingredient - can be Niacinamide as mentioned and if needed other ingredients for marketing at 0.01%.
Of course well preserve and as Abdullah mentioned, chelator would not harm it. 

Hope this helps, happy formulating. 

First of all thank you for your reply. Just 2 more questions : what will work besides  niacinamide as the “hero ingredient”? What about non-tacky humectant ? will 2% of Propylene Glycol be enough?

[Karo_lina]

Camel said:

Karo_lina said:

Is it safe to use lactic acid while spraying it on your face? As for the hydrosol , 20% is the minimum amount that will give the face toner nice fragrance

Lactic acid is ideal for sensitive skin, as it is one of the more mild, gentle exfoliants. It can even be used during pregnancy and postpartum. You can find it in many commercial face toners, however, always be careful applying any product around the eyes. 

Thank you very much for your reply  

[Karo_lina]

Abdullah said:

What preservative are you using?

I would say add a chelating agent too, use only water soluble marketing ingredients, and use 1% or so lactic acid instead of glycerin and citric acid. It will decrease the pH and is better humectant than glycerin and has better skin feel too. 

You can feel even 1% of glycogen from a product if it is just glycerin and water. 

Also if you are not sure what your hydrosol is doing, reduce that to 0.1% and save yourself some money. 

Is it safe to use lactic acid while spraying it on your face? As for the hydrosol , 20% is the minimum amount that will give the face toner nice fragrance

[Karo_lina]

Camel said:

Karo_lina said:

does increasing the amount of glycerin make sense? 

Yes, you could increase the amount of glycerin if you’d like, although some people find higher levels of glycerin to feel sticky. Try 5% and see if you like how it feels. I have made products with up to 20% glycerin that didn’t feel sticky, but it really depends on the formula, I suppose.

Is this a product you are selling? You could also consider adding niacinamide at 4-5%. It is a really popular ingredient in toners used by many big brands. Might help with the marketing and it does have some supporting studies for its use, plus dermatologists seem to love it. 

Thank you for your reply . Yes, I will be selling this. I will try 5% glycerin. I was actually thinking about niacynamid but for marketing reasons. if niacinamide actually works then I will think about increasing the price of the product and adding it

[Karo_lina]

Camel said:

Yes, but it really depends what you are trying to achieve in this toner. With this formula, you are basically just spraying water on your face, which there is nothing inherently wrong with doing. 

does increasing the amount of glycerin make sense? 

[Karo_lina]

My client is a woman with too much money and zero knowledge about chemistry. She wants to start a beauty business. As for the synthetic ingredients, she didn’t want to say how she chose those specific ingredients, but it’s very possible she chose the names from the first google link.
 

[Karo_lina]

Perry said:

You (or your client) may just have to face the fact that cosmetics are not natural & if you restrict your formulating to inferior ingredients, you get inferior performing products. You may already be as good as you can get.

Also how is cetyl alcohol & sodium cocoyl isethionate natural?

I fully agree with you. But it is the client who pays me and I have to create according to his order, no matter what I think about it

[Karo_lina]

Abdullah said:

I even don’t like the feeling of 1% Shea butter in a product. You have 16%. 

If you want oily layer, use some glyceryl oleate in your product. 

Does your client like preservative?

Do you think that Cocoa butter  will be better as a substitute for shea ?

[Karo_lina]

 glyceryl oleate will not work - to synthetic  , as for the preservative, only the ones that are ecocerted. In my lab I have:

Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate
 Dehydroacetic Acid, Benzyl Alcohol
Benzyl alcohol, Salicilic acid, Hexa-2,4-dienoic acid (sorbic acid), Glycerol

[Karo_lina]

Perry said:

Temperature is crucial, but if your containers are closed, humidity doesn’t matter as much. Those numbers sound appropriate to me.  Lower humidity could result in a material drying out but that is only if it is not in a sealed container. 

Thank you for you reply. What do you mean by “lower humidity”? 20%? 

[Karo_lina]

Bill_Toge said:

try sodium cocoyl glutamate, that’s got a very pleasant after-feel

Should I add this instead of CAPB ?

[Karo_lina]

sorry for my mistake. At this moment this is what i have:

Olive oil – 15%

Gliceryl Stearate SE- 4%

Shea butter- 15%

Cocoa butter – 10%

Cetyl alcohol- 4%

Almond oil - 10% 

Ricinus oil- 6%

Squalene – 2%

CAPB (30%)- 8 %

Xantan gum 0 0,2 %

Glycerin- 6%

The rest would be water, preservative. 

I get cream with nice after feel but I’m wondering if i can add something extra to make the skin feel hydrated after wash it.

[Karo_lina]

PhilGeis said:

Prob not - but check micro for mold.

already checked, everything is OK

[Karo_lina]

chemicalmatt said:

Silica! Works like a charm.

what kind of silica? silica sachets ?

[Karo_lina]

evchem2 said:

It’s probably taking up some moisture- how do you package/store?

in a glass container. sth like this:

[Karo_lina]

Graillotion said:

If you want the acid aspect to kick in…you need to lower your pH below 6.  (And this is a VERY good thing.)  

could you send the link to the above table? I am unable to see it on my computer due to the low resolution

[Karo_lina]

0,028 %    

[Karo_lina]

PhilGeis said:

I know some claim their hydrosols need no preservatives as raw material- since filled hot in sanitized containers.    Even if always effective (doubt that) - time would not be a factor - only exposure to potential contamination (PAO would actually have some validity).
Method (physical) control in manuf doesn’t reasonably do anything for an ex. date. 
“Special production method” challenge them to prove it.

I contacted the supplier and I received this message:
“The tests showed that the hydrosol is stable for at least 2 years after production, the durability of the product may also be influenced by the high content of essential oils, which themselves prevent contamination.”

[Karo_lina]

Thank you all! You helped me a lot