johnb
Forum Replies Created
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Further to what Belassi said (and to save you some timewasting) I’m doubtful that the formula given is complete. There is no emulsifier listed and this important in a product with silicones and water.
Note that benzyl salicylate is part of the perfume and performs no active function in a hair spray.
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350cst dimethicone will not behave in the same manner as cyclomethicone.
One of the major points of using cyclomethicone is to have a component which acts as a slip agent (which is what you are looking for) and at the same time evaporate after application to give the “dry” effect. Using a non-volatile silicone or mineral oil may give the desired slip but it will also, most likely, give a persistent (and unesthetic) sticky residue - liable to cause staining of clothing.
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If the large manufacturers of this type of stick were able to obtain a marketable product in which water (very low cost) replaces cyclomethicone (very high cost) they would have done so by now.
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The formulation I found for this product is:
Salicylic Acid (3%), Glycerin, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Elaeis
Guineensis (Palm) Kernel Oil, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Seed Oil,
Water/Aqua/Eau, Sodium Hydroxide, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed
Oil, Sorbitan Oleate, Sorbitol, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Protein,
Foeniculum Vulgare (Fennel) Oil, Lecithin, Lavandula Angustifolia
(Lavender) Oil, Hamamelis Virginiana (Witch Hazel) Water, Aloe
Barbadensis Leaf Juice Powder, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract, Cucurbita
Pepo (Pumpkin) Seed Oil, Honey/Mel/Miel, Phenylethyl Resorcinol,
Alcohol, Tocopherol, Evernia Prunastri (Oakmoss) Extract, Glycine Soja
(Soybean) Oil.This is from http://www.skin1.com/phchpsbar4oz.html
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The formula you give will never result in a stick product.
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The hot mixture consists of molten wax in the solvent. As the mixture cools the wax component forms crystals. The slower the cooling, the larger the crystals and the harder the end product. Agitation during cooling breaks up large crystals and permits the formation of numerous smaller crystals thus a softer texture when cool.
This effect of crystal size associated with the cooling rate/agitation rate is frequently the cause of the differences and failures experienced during scale-up from laboratory to manufacturing scale.
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You have two posts asking the same question.
What is the purpose of the product containing two oils?
If you just want to make a dilute essential oil then diproplylene glycol works for most. Alternatively, a cosmetic ester such as isopropyl myristate.
In the main, glyceride oils such as canola are not miscible with essential oils. An exception is castor oil which has a unique composition which renders it soluble in many essential oils and high proof alcohol. Castor oil is quite viscous which may be advantageous in your product to retard evaporation.
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Which product is this related to?
I ask because the formulation you show seems to be a hydrid of a”dry” ACH/fatty alcohol/volatile solvent stick mixed with an incompatible aqueous phase.
It is a few years since I wa involved with underarm products so I readily admit that I might be somewhat out of date but I really cannot see how a product like you are proposing can be feasible.
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I have used a similar mixture and found it successful.
However, my formulations were completely different to the one you are considering.
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Be careful not to confuse grapefruit and Gracefruit!
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Your link gave me a 404 but, why do you want to isolate glycolic acid?
The material is extremely low cost and produced on a vast scale such that is not worthwhile isolating from natural sources.
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Is the turbidity permanent? Does clarity return on cooling?
You state that you are testing in PET containers. Does the turbidity occur on tests in glass bottles?
A better test of this would be glass ampoules (sealed by fusion of the glass) as is done with injections. You could then eliminate any effects from bottle caps/wads etc.
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Mark,
Thanks for your detailed information.
It’s a number of years
since I was involved in mainstream production processes but this was
most certainly the way things were going when I was doing factory audits
of contractors for own-label clients. Some, however, have fallen by the
wayside by not keeping up with technical developments (including the
one without the word processor). -
Candelilla wax melts at around 70°C.
It is a very hard wax.
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Bill
All computer records should be protected against the disasters you describe by having at least two backups of the data - one of these stored away from the premises where the manufacture takes place.I agree there is nothing as good as a lab notebook for initial development work but I also strongly believe that as soon as the twinkle in your eye (or beaker) becomes a potentially useful entity then the details should be recorded on a modern secure system e.g a computer (with backup).
On the manufacturing side, hand written records are prone to damage from spillages, misinterpretation of poor handwriting, doodling and such.
Waterproof/chemical proof computer setups are available and with the increasing availability of computer compatible weighing and volumetric equipment + process control the case for exclusively hand written records falls away.
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Polyox resins from DOW give amazing slip characteristics to aqueous solutions.
Polyox is a range of polyethylene oxide resins.
http://www.dow.com/dowwolff/en/industrial_solutions/product/polyox.htm
Click to the “more literature” page and then the first reference to Polyox
POLYOX™ Water-Soluble Resins - Unique Resins for Binding, Lubricity, Adhesion and Emollient Performance -
The first thing to try with this problem is for you to prepare samples in your facility using ingredients which are known to be causing the problem i.e from your customer. Depending on the outcome of this you will be able to determine the source of the colour - ingredients or processing conditions.
You might also try omitting the BHT (phenols notoriously give colour reactions in the presence of iron showing a pink or purple shade).
When I was involved with the manufacture of bar soaps, BHT was a definite no-no as, even without the presence of metals, it discoloured to a very bright yellow. Nice if you wanted yellow soap but not of much general use.
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I’m an even older guy.
At school we used pens with dip in ink. This progressed to my student days and having fountain pens (I still have the Parker 51 pen that I used for my pre- and post graduate dissertations).
I used a fountain pen most of my career with the proviso of using “permanent” ink to satisfy the record keepers.
Ball point pens have never been favourite of mine. I find them too thin to hold comfortably for writing more than a few words/figures.
My early career introduced me to computers and even though at that time even the simplest calculating engine took up the space of a house, I could easily see where technology was taking things.
Anyway, cutting this rambling short, doesn’t anyone keep their records on computer?
A contract manufacturer I visited a few years ago told me (on enquiring about his computer setup) that they didn’t have a computer. They had a word processor for trial but their secretary was technophobic and wouldn’t/couldn’t use it. This was a manufacturer with contracts with some quite large retail outlets.
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Cetrimonium chloride will dissolve in stearic acid (and cetearyl alcohol) by using solid CTC and mixing with molten SA and/or CA and allowing to dissolve. Heat the SA/CA to 100 - 110C and stir in the CTC. Stir to dissolve and pour into a mould or on to a cool surface to solidify.
You must use a good grade of CTC as some poorer grades may contain sodium chloride as a contaminant which will not dissolve.
As a point of interest, cetrimonium bromide 10% in cetearyl alcohol equates to the pharmaceutical material Cationic Emulsifying Wax.
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If you get this to succeed, ensure you do thorough stability testing before proceeding to anything marketable.
Silicone oils are notably difficult to form clear products with non-silicone materials.
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Benzethonium chloride and benzalknium chloride are both cationic surfactants and show similar incompatibility with anionic materials.
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Bill, that is correct but there is no mention of furocoumarins in the original post and the poster may not be aware of the problem.
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Methenamine is a reaction product of ammonia and formaldehyde.
Methenamine readily decomposes on heating, high pH, low pH releasing free formaldehyde.
Doubtful if it would be accepted in an acne product in most countries. -
Be careful using bergamot oil it is phototoxic. It is restricted by IFRA to 0.4% in leave-on products.
Reagarding the lactic acid - can you get a better grade?
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The way they do it is by using modified clays (benzalkonium hectorites and such like) and sometimes fumed silica which act a suspending agents for the ACH in the silicone.
These products require high shear mixing to disperse the ACH and clay. They are not suitable for hand mixing on a kitchen worktop or even an ordinary laboratory bench.