jemolian
Forum Replies Created
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They probably are using 5% based on a paper that it increases wound healing. It should be available if you look for it.
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It’s possible that the carbomer is not working out well with the co-emulsifiers thus creating the “cheesy” effect. I find that if i don’t test out and balance them properly that tend to happen when i use “carbomers”. No issues if i use other polymers.
Reference to the effect:
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When using the K-20W, if i’m including carbomers in the formula, normally i add it at the neutralizing step since it can do that. I only disperse it in glycerin if i’m using it in my foaming hand wash.
Generally it provides a substantive feel, and glide if you used it in a significant amount.
For the “wet” skin feel, as @Graillotion mentioned, the pentylene glycol or a fst breaking polymer should do it, but it can also depend on how waxy your emulsion is.
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Normally the silicone crosspolymers won’t be used at such as high percentage, since any percentage lower than 5% should be sufficient for the skin feel modifying purposes. You can also consider the info from Lotioncrafter if you need more reference, and also any manufacturer info on ulprospector.
For the SDS, i’d assume it would be the general comment or remark for production purposes.
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For being a good “occlusive”, it depends on what factor you want to compare it against since there’s TEWL or permeability to look at.
The “PEG” normally means that it would be water soluble to a certain point, that being a surfactant / emulsifier.
You can look into the different skin feel based on the different silicone types, for example liquid vs crosspolymers.
Makingcosmetics do list the recommended type of product for the ingredients, so for amodimethicone, it’s a blend for hair conditioning.
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There can be several factors. One being it closer to skin pH, another being the required compatible pH range of all your ingredients, lastly for functionality purposes.
Normally there is a purpose why your pH requirement is at where it is, and it’s up to you to justify your choice.
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Thanks for the feedback
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I just went to check on 1688 (china), they are selling it for:
- RMB 4000 for 500g
- RMB 102 for 10g
Not sure how reputable they all are but i guess the Bhat price is still fine if it’s a trustable source. Kind of hard to determine.
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I’m not sure at the moment. I’m looking at what to purchase from them for the time being. Interested in some anti glycation ingredients. If they offer paypal payment, i think it should be fine. I think it will require manually asking them for payment options.
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Have you tried purchasing from a repacker? I saw this Thai repacker selling it (just yesterday. If not i would have mentioned it earlier).
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You will just need to figure out if your combination of emulsifier + viscosity modifier would work out to the viscosity you need. Montanov 202 doesn’t add much viscosity, so the viscosity modifier would be the main concern, thus the possibility of soaping.
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@SaraLee
maybe to add on to the comments on the emulsifiers or montanov in general, how i choose normally choose my emulsifier would still depend on the requirements, which can include viscosity, raw material, skin feel, etc.I have the following and will choose them if i’m making the following products, normally i’d pair it with a polymeric emulsifier since i make gel creams most of the time:
- 202 - if i require a matte finish, light weight lotion or emulsion
- L - if making a light weight lotion or milk
- 68 - if making a slightly waxy cream, with carbomer 980 as a richer texture
- 82 - i don’t use this often but i’ve made a cleansing lotion with this since it contains coco glucoside
I’m flexible with my choice of emulsifiers, i’ve used 68 & L at the very beginning of my formulation days and currently working on 202 since i’m interested in a matte finish.
I’d still recommend to choose one based on your requirement(s) since the end result varies (depending on the blend). In terms of soaping, just get adjust the percentage of emulsifiers accordingly.
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It would depend on the specific carbomer you use, each type can have a different viscosity effect at the same percentage and different skin feel.
You can look at the neutralization pdf on the percentage recommendation.
https://www.lubrizol.com/-/media/Lubrizol/Health/TDS/TDS-237_Neutralizing_Carbopol_Pemulen_in_Aqueous_Hydroalcoholic_Systems-PH.pdf -
It depends on your comparison. If you compare it to other paste / waxy type lipids, it should not be “a good occlusive”, more so when compared to petrolatum.
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Sclerotium
Gum might be able to do that. -
You should check it to ensure that it’s within the compatibility range of your ingredients, and also to monitor for changes of pH over time.
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It depends on what kind of “long lasting” results you want. I’d recommend mixing it with different emollients for a specific result. By itself, i won’t say that it’s that long lasting, but it should hold up alone for a few hours. You can mix it with a butter or heavier lipid if you want.
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Some manufacturers describe it as having a “rich onctuous, velvety and non-greasy feel” that “impacts a rich, full bodied, long-lasting feel on skin”. Then others say it has a light, soft and dry skin feel.
Personally i don’t feel that it feels “dry”, other than that it is as described above. It depends on what “full bodied” means though.
If i were to describe it, it’s a light ester that gives a soft, velvety skin feel. Richness depends on the percentage you used it at really.
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One thing to think about is what kind of documents you need to hold or get from the manufacturer for the EU region, i believe the info required for the PIF, in case of checks or events.
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Since it’s a preservative, personally i feel that it’s likely that as long as there’s not too many additives that challenges the preservative blend, it’s considered simple.
Products with surfactants can be very barebones though. Like a basic foaming face cleanser. Shampoo could be one of them depending on how you design it to be. Look at the sample formulation on ulprospector for Brilliance Clear Shampoo for Oily Hair (Formulation #Z351-10A) for example.
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On the topic….OF using esters as moisturizers….just so I can tuck this into my data banks….what lite esters also do double duty….and do a little moisturizing on the side?
@Graillotion maybe just on the additional moisturization side with data available for comparison.
- Coco-Caprylate/Caprate - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8i26333c578dm9/Liponate_CCC_2019B.pdf?dl=0
- Hydrogenated Polyisobutene - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8a6fl8nogfiiqv4/Panalane_SS_V.pdf?dl=0
Also Sensolene, not sure if you consider it lite but it broke me out over a few days.
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Perhaps when you use hurdle / static preservatives since you’d want your users not to touch the product directly.
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If it doesn’t contain a volatile component, normally i add it into the heated oil phase if applicable. Sometimes they would have recommendations on processing guidelines on the tech sheet if any.
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You can use the oil dispersed version https://lotioncrafter.com/products/hyaluronic-acid-oleo-ha?_pos=1&_sid=c36c3cbe8&_ss=r
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I’d say these 2 are the most important questions regarding to the main question since the answer can be very different.
-1- Which ingredients/actives help mattify the skin?-2- How can I make the finish of my emulsion less shiny?Most of the time the choice of accompanying materials can change the looks of the formulation.
When i mixed Hydrogenated Polyisobutene + Tridecyl Trimellitate + M 202 + Carbomer 980, it turned out slightly matte and lotiony.
When i mixed Hydrogenated Polyisobutene + Coco-Caprylate/Caprate + M 202 + Sepinov EMT 10, it turned out glossier and slightly firmer.
I started with E-Wax, then 165, then the M series & others. :'(