jemolian
Forum Replies Created
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I think with the 202, it’s relatively light and non bodying, so in case you need to add anymore thickness to it via another fatty alcohol or other waxes i think it should work out. More so with the mattifying finish that it has, unless your target customers prefer a more glossy look when applied.
Normally i’d make my body / hand cream with just 202, which is quite light weight. In terms of the hands wise, i’d say it’s what i’d prefer. My colleague prefer something thicker, so i used the 68.
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Perhaps only Montanov 68, unless you can get some of the 82 to test out if it’s reaching your expectations.
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@abierose
if you can’t find Emulium Delta, perhaps you can try Lipomulse Luxe. You can compared the sensory profile, which they have done so on the product brochure with Emulium Delta. It’s available on Trulux.https://azeliscanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Lipomulse-Luxe-Brochure-1.pdf
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@Pharma
Normally i’d purchase small samples from the repackers from China from Taobao and 1688. Not sure if you’d be able to purchase from there via a forwarder. For Diisostearyl Malate, the chinese term would be 二异硬脂醇苹果酸酯.On Taobao, they have the small sample size for the Haimalate DIS (80g) that i purchased, Cosmol 222 (500g), and エステロール DISM (from National Mimatsu, 1kg). On 1688, they have 1kg or litre amounts.
I’d use Chemical Book to look for the chinese terms, so if there’s anything else you need look for you can try the database. They list some of the chinese suppliers as well. https://www.chemicalbook.com/ProductIndex.aspxI’m also trying to find SALACOS WO-6 (Dipentaerythrityl Tri-Polyhydroxystearate) but can’t really find a sample amount. If you do have any leads, hope you’d let me know. ::smile:
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The cost was part of my consideration so that’s why i bought the Tridecyl Trimellitate for testing. 🙂 Normally i’d compare the cost from the china repackers, the cost is about 4 times of the Tridecyl Trimellitate per litre.
Normally i’d do some searches on the products that contains certain ingredients via some product database, like here for Diisostearyl Malate.
https://incidecoder.com/ingredients/diisostearyl-malate -
For Diisostearyl Malate, it was the first out of the three that i had tried. I was trying to find a heavier emollient for a longer lasting moisturization, so when comparing a few combinations and based on observation, the combination with the Diisostearyl Malate works best. My skin was actually quite moisturized throughout the whole day.
- Isononyl Isononanoate + Cromollient DP3A (Di-PPG-3 Myristyl Ether Adipate)
- Capric / Caprylic Triglyceride + Squalane (Olive)
- Isononyl Isononanoate + Haimalate DIS (Diisostearyl Malate)
For Cromollient DP3A, it was moisturized for the short term but when i woke up, my skin was slightly dry.
So when comparing the following, they seem to work similarly.
- Isononyl Isononanoate + Haimalate DIS (Diisostearyl Malate)
- Parleam (Hydrogenated Polyisobutene) + Liponate TDTM (Tridecyl Trimellitate)
When doing a patch test of 5% of each (Tridecyl Trimellitate, Diisostearyl Malate, Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate) in a gel based with Aristoflex AVC, in the short term the moisturization feels very similar. Maybe it’s just me, i somehow feel that the Diisostearyl Malate is very very slightly more moisturizing?
Last night, I made a batch with just Tridecyl Trimellitate without the Parleam and my moisturizer still works. Just that it’s not as fast spreading. I think i’ll make a batch again with just Diisostearyl Malate alone and see how well it will compare. But i think the result would likely be similar.
I’m interested to try and see how Isopropyl Isostearate compares.
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It depends on what you mean by “powerful”. I’m personally not a fan of plant oils since they have a chance of breaking me out.
For the choice of emollient, it depends on the emolliency, glossiness, fatty acid profile, stability in a formula, etc. There are a lot of choices to that.
I’m currently testing with the esters that are castor oil alternatives such as Tridecyl Trimellitate, Diisostearyl Malate, Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate. They provide more heavier duty emolliency, which will be good in combination with other light esters or emollients.
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Just my personal opinion, i’d recommend looking at consolidated percentages of humectants and individual humectants that are in the formulation.
The Natrasmooth contains Tremella, Betaine & Glycerin. If you are using liquid extracts, then the Licorice and Green Tea would likely have Glycerin in them as well, so depending on how much Glycerin you need, you might not need to add additional Glycerin as an individual ingredient since it would be tacky.
Depending on how well the Tremella & Hyaluronic Acid thickens, you might not need to add 1% Tara Gum as well, a lower percentage can be added to thicken slightly more if that is what you need.
You will need to make sure that the Optiphen is fully solubilized if that is your concern.
Also it depends on how well the Urea performs on your skin. It can hydrate but it can also add some tackiness and act as an exfoliator. Allantoin can also act as a mild exfoliator.
The percentage of Propylene Glycol is relatively high, you can consider lowering that based on how the skin feel goes.
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You would be able to. Ultimately it depends on your combination and percentage of Active Surfactant Matter based on your preference on foam or performance.
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@ifamuj my CCT has a smell that i don’t really like that much by itself, but other than that, i prefer to use at max at about 10%.
At 20%, you need to test if you like the skin feel or not, so i don’t think it’s something that i can comment too much on because it’s a personal preference or formulation requirement to the lipid selection.
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I saw you mention the Hydrogenated Polyisobutene so i went ahead to order some from china, with the trade name PARLEAM, which is roughly similar to Squalane in terms of profile. Wanted to try the 1200 version from Making cosmetics but it’s out of stock
Still working on increasing the emollency of my moisturizer with the heavier esters, though Isononyl Isononoate works relatively well in skin softening, and moisturization in the short term (perhaps up to 4 to 6 hours in more drying conditions).
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@Graillotion i bought mine from china as per usual, but then in terms of skin feel wise, Isononyl Isononoate’s profile is very fast spreading, silky and relatively fast absorbing even up to 20%.
You can see some of the info on performance here ->
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mpv0hbaaq91etct/DOC%20FICHE%20DUB%20ININ.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nc5xfxi2dwpx22e/Lanol%2099.pdf?dl=0I can’t compare too much since i normally use esters that are not sold in the US, such as Cetyl Ethylhexanoate or Triethylhexanoin, but they are all relatively very light esters, so in terms of performance wise, they are quite close. If the ones you have are light esters or lighter than Capric / Caprylic Triglyceride, i think they would be quite similar.
I’ve been testing with some of the thicker, more emollient esters like Di-PPG-3 Myristyl Ether Adipate, Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate, Diisostearyl Malate.
Just bought some Hydrogenated Polyisobutene, so hope to test it when it arrives.
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@ifamuj normally for my formulations i use esters such as Isononyl Isononanoate. I rarely use plant oils, butters, waxes, and mineral oils.
The type of lipids largely depends on your requirements such as cost, skin feel, brand philosophy, product and marketing requirements.
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Depending on what you are trying to formulate and what kind of reference product you are using for reference, the barebones or essential ingredients can vary, for example, a standard cream formulation would minimally contain:
- Water
- Emulsifier
- Lipid
- Humectant (Some medical active creams may contain propylene glycol instead of glycerin)
- Preservative
The rest of the ingredients, you can use them for added extras. Though to answer your questions in general, I’d recommend to patch test them separately to see if they actually do anything for your skin before deciding to add them to your formulation. For example, normally if i’m trying out if an ingredient works or not, i’d be applying my usual moisturizer, plus that ingredient formulated separately in a different form, such as a gel. This way i can see if they do anything for my skin at specific percentages over a few applications.
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we sell to stores and our customers purchase from stores.They communicate with shopkeeper and we are not in direct communication with consumer.
We will add the phone number on label the next time we were printing label’s so consumer would be able to directly communicate with us if necessary.
If you sell to stores, it would be good to communicate to the retailers well. Providing them with product knowledge, sufficient marketing materials, etc, would be useful in selling the products.
As someone that use to work in a small online skin care retail store as a marketer, that’s what i would recommend and expect to see from brand companies where support would always be greatly appreciated.
As a brand owner, online presence where you can do social media marketing and monitoring, pre-sales and post-sales would also be important. That would be one good way to understanding your demographic for various reasons.
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Perhaps it’s possible, but i’ve not really done a side by side test to figure that out.
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@Graillotion it’s Hyacross from Bloomage, they manufacture various HAs and Polyglutamic acids. 0.5% to 1% should be sufficient.
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Just to give some more feedback to confuse you, lol.
For propylene glycol vs butylene glycol vs propanediol: Propanediol would be a “green” alternative to Propylene Glycol, in terms of solubilizing wise, more expensive in cost, and also seems to have lower irritation potential. For Butylene Glycol, the moisturization is very close, but in terms of Butylene Glycol vs the other two, the preservation boosting capabilities can be very different, besides from the potential skin feel differences. The choice of which glycol to use can largely depend on what you are looking for it to do.
For HA vs glycols, personally i’m not a big fan of normal HA since it (1M dalton ) doesn’t seems do anything much for me, my preference is the HA crosspolymer since i find that the performance is more significant in humid climates.
For Glycereth-26, i use it in my hand wash, somehow i find that it make my skin drier. Perhaps others would have another opinion with it. I do use Butylene glycol or Propanediol in the same formula depending on what i have more of, i find that they moisturize my hands roughly the same.
As what Graillotion has mentioned, i’d also recommend looking into the lipids and emulsifier you are using, so to increase spread and to reduce drag from that point. For my moisturizer, normally i don’t use any glycols if possible as they seem to irritate my face, though no issues for my hands or body.
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Perhaps you can try betaine or sorbitol if you are looking for milder ones.
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Always check with the reseller or repacker if they are from the same manufacturers to keep the material as consistent as possible. Some materials might have inconsistencies from batch to batch, so you will have to take note on that even if it’s from the same manufacturer.
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The order looks fine, though you will need to confirm if the grade of xanthan can be stable at that pH, if not most retail versions would also use HA, though it will require sometime to hydrate it fully. Just note that xanthan might be tacky.
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You can opt to use milder humectants if you can’t use the more water retaining types.
If not put the formula in a airless pump bottle or jar, squeeze the bottom lever or stopper to reduce the head space. At least with it, the moisture won’t go anywhere.
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Likelihood to be water evaporation. So you can think about what TheSocksTooBig has mentioned.
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When to add the ingredients depends on the context.
For example for the Polyquaternium-7, if it’s a cold process formula, add it to the water phase. If it’s a heat process formula, you can add it during the cool down phase.
For the Vit E, add it during the processing where the mixture is still liquid to ensure better dispersion. For example, if it’s a heated balm, add it while it’s still slightly warm so that it can be mixed in. If it’s a normal emulsion type formula where you have normal cool down phase below 40 degree Celsius, add it during that phase.
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Perhaps the reason could include the ionic nature so that the emulsion may be more stable? And also a potential powder skin feel provided?
Though depending on the storage condition, i’ve seen someone post on reddit that their Cerave smells fishy, perhaps due to the BTMS.
