[Gunther]

You can easily make pump hairspray yourself with
100% ethyl alcohol
2-5% PVP, polyvinylpirrolidone
fragrance

but IDK if you’ll consider polymers as PVP to be organic or natural
Hairspray without polymers will have virtually no hold.

[Gunther]

Maybe you can heat it to allow the emulsifier to melt itself,
top it off with water as needed
then stop heating while mixing it to emulsify
as to reduce further evaporation?

And cold emulsifiers too.

[Gunther]

@Mynkcosmo will you use an emulsifier?
Because if you do, you may not need any alcohol.

[Gunther]

This attempt didn’t work well:

60% water
2.5% BTMS-50
heat and stir

10% silicone mix (15% dimethiconol, 85% cyclopentasiloxane)
stir

8.33% Dehyton-K (2.5% active CAPB)
stir gently and left standing for a few hours
3g SLS powder
10% Texapon N70 (7% active SLES)
1.5g Oxiteno Alkont EL 3645 thickener
it remains water thin

8% Dehyton-K 
it becomes thick and slimy.

I will repeat the test with just 1-2% dimethicone instead of the silicone mix, to see if it gets any better.

[Gunther]

A Croda sample fomulation emulsified 50% dimethicone with just 3% BTMS-50

High silicone cream
SC-326

Part A
Deionized water 43.0%

Part B
Dimethicone 200cs 50.0%
Cetearyl alcohol 3.0%

Part C
Germaben 1.0%

I tried
60 volume% deionized water
2 wt% BTMS-50
heat to 75C and stir
2 wt% dimethicone 350
stir to emulsify
38 vol% cyclomethicone D5
(I didn’t use preservatives in this preliminary test)

and it seems to hold without separating, being thin enough for a spray pump.
It feel way better than all water formulation, and hair dries quickly.

I’ll see if it still works with just 1.5% BTMS to make it thinner, as it feels borderline thick for a pump spray, with some large droplets, not always a fine mist.

[Gunther]

I ain’t sure the above formula is holding
it’s a bit cloudy and while leaving it standing, it becomes clear
if you shake it, it becomes cloudy again.

Just for fun I tried melting some BTMS in a metal spoon with a lighter underneath (insert Breaking Bad mems here lol)
and pouring it in room temperature D5
it doesn’t seem to hold.

[Gunther]

Sure
you can use alcohol if you want, especially if that’s going to evaporate later.
Lots of body splash formulas contain alcohol.

OTOH be aware that vegetable oils ain’t that soluble in ethyl alcohol (a bit more soluble in isopropyl alcohol, but it smells )
So if you’re sticking to a proven formula, it may work fine.

You can buy 95% alcohol in chemical supply retailers.
At worse you’d be asked to show your ID. No big deal.

[Gunther]

On the cheap you can get a 50 ml or larger syringe, drill a larger exit hole
make a suitable device that holds it facing down, and place a weight on the plunger.
See how long it takes to empty trough the exit hole.

[Gunther]

PVP didn’t dissolve in pure cyclomethicone D5

then tried
70% by volume ethyl alcohol 95%
4% by weight PVP K-30
allow to fully dissolve
then added
30% vol D5
it seems to hold
I’ll need to make a larger batch in another container to be totally sure there ain’t no tiny layer separating at the top.

[Gunther]

You can be your own guinea pig if you want
just don’t sell it as regulations clearly ban live bacteria

You just need one customer to get sick from it
to end up with your home and assets forfeited, and maybe even in jail.

While I haven’t (I don’t intend to) read the studies
Sederma (or any large corporation) haven’t gotten live bacteria to the market for the above mentioned reasons.

Even bacterial extracts can become troublesome
it only takes a single surviving bacteria to make it to the extract, to infect customers and cost hundreds of millions, if not billions in reparations and fines.

Don’t expect a single individual or small firm to outsmart them, and overcome these hurdles.

[Gunther]

I just got some cyclopentasiloxane (cyclomethicone D5)

50% ethyl alcohol @ 95%
50% D5
didn’t hold in solution, and a liquid layer separated.

60% alcohol
40% D5
held fine.

but
60% alcohol
40% D5
4% PVP K-30
the liquid layer separated again.

I will do some more experimenting and keep you guys posted.

[Gunther]

1 All formulations need to pass a bacterial test to be approved.

2 Most formulations need preservatives, that will kill, harm or at least prevent from growing, any existing bacteria.

3 There’s no evidence bacterial strains are safe.
They may cause excessive bacterial growth in some people.
i.e. eyes are especially prone to developing infections.

4 There’s no evidence that bacterial strains are beneficial for skin.

5 Stop reading pseudoscientific BS blogs that advise dangerous treatments, like live bacteria.

[Gunther]

You heat water to about 70-85 degrees C
pour BTMS, allow to melt
stir for about 10 minutes
then add oils, silicones or whatever you wish to emulsify
stir thoroughly to emulsify, but avoid making excess foam.

[Gunther]

What was the pH before adding TEA?
Was it even lower (more acidic)?
If so, you may wish to reduce acids: lactic, salicylic and stearic, as TEA is likely reacting with all of them as @ozgirl mentioned.

You can check if they are insoluble
i.e. adding lactic, salicyclic and stearic acids in separate beakers, and adding TEA to each one of them, to see if an insoluble precipitate forms.
This can help spot the most troublesome ingredients, needing to be lowered or replaced.
A simple, 5 minutes experiment that will go a long way.

[Gunther]

@Wissal there’s a study that shows that only Potassium coco soap is a bit soluble

The solubility of sodium and potassium soaps and the phase diagrams of aqueous potassium soaps

Article in Journal of the American Oil Chemists’ Society 25(6):221-225 · June 1948 with 1,107 Reads

DOI: 10.1007/BF02645899

Abstract

Solubility data are provided and collected for the pure sodium and potassium soaps. Hydrolysis obscures the temperatures of solution but is obviated by the presence of a small excess of alkali. Each sodium soap has a large range of temperature between fair and high solubility, whereas the potassium soaps go abruptly into solution, at almost the same temperature and concentration of each soap. The only soaps that are even moderately soluble at room temperature are potassium laurate, myristate, and oleate, the potassium salt of acids from coconut oil, and the sodium oleate. The other sodium and potassium soaps of the saturated fatty acids require elevated temperatures for solution. Phase diagrams for the five commonest potassium soaps are developed and recorded. 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225452149_The_solubility_of_sodium_and_potassium_soaps_and_the_phase_diagrams_of_aqueous_potassium_soaps

There are 2 problems to solve:
1 See if Potassium cocoate is soluble enough for a decent cleaning formulation. And see if the foam is good enough.
2 Check Potassium cocoate solution pH to make sure it ain’t too alkaline, which may damage skin and hair.

See if you can find the whole study and keep us posted.

Just out of curiosity, what plants are grown in Morocco that might be used in cosmetics?

[Gunther]

Yes, get the BTMS
it’s crucial
You can make great 1 ingrdient conditioners just with BTMS (well, 3 ingredients with water and preservative)

BTW Do you guys think I’m being taken advantage of?
Local source is charging me $24 per Kg of BTMS-50, isn’t that excessive?
Did they just realize that pricey or not, you can’t easily replace BTMS?

At least that includes an invoice with 12% VAT that I can deduct of taxes on invoices that I write.

[Gunther]

While I have only used BTMS-50
Can you please post the % of each one? Maybe you’re using too much oils/silicones and too little BTMS?

[Gunther]

Unless that’s a shampoo bar that’s left open in a humid bathroom,
shampoo is sold in bottles, so they’d reach equilibrium with the water vapour that tries to evaporate, but can’t because the bottle is closed (although not perfectly sealed)

So a closed bottle stability test replicates real-life humidity conditions.

[Gunther]

@Wissal In My Opinion you have the right idea:
people look for “natural” plant extract based cosmetics
so the most important part is to source the plants, and to make its extracts.
Then you can look for cosmetic formulas online, and experiment to see if they remain stable after plant extracts have been added.

Some can easily be extracted, and need no special or expensive equipment
i.e. @Belassi coffee shampoo. Coffee is a plant extract. Grounded coffee is widely available and relatively cheap, and easy to extract.

So you’d need:
1 a mill for grounding the plants to a fine powder
2 pots for boiling (some plants can even be cold extracted)
3 hydrosol equipment.
no big deal you can build it yourself
you’ll need a water boiler, something that holds finely ground plant material in the steam path, a condenser, and something to hold the condensed hydrosol/essential oil

You can even use a pressure cooker as the water boiler, and attach a tube to its weigh-valve

[Gunther]

You may wish to add BTMS-50
it can emulsify both oils and silicones
so it can help you remove polysorbate.

Does glycerin does something noticeable to hair?
See if it’s making too much of a plasticizing effect for PVP
Same for Aloe vera, you may need to redice it to clams level concentation.

I’ve tried making a concentrated water+ BTMS-50 + silicone conditioner
and then dissolving that in alcohol
it does dissolve, even though it takes several hours, probably it takes overnight in a larger tank.

For 100% water conditioners, BTMS-50 can be used at up to about 2% so it remains water-thin to be used in a spray pump.
You probably can use more than 2% if there’s some alcohol in it, as it makes it thinner.

You may wish to increase the alcohol concentration, as high water, makes the spray hard to dry, and PVP doesn’t leave a good hold.

I’ve found that adding almost anything to sprays (other than alcohol) reduces its hold, so you may need to increase PVP concentration well beyond 2%

[Gunther]

Thanks @Dr Catherine Pratt
Maybe it can be used at up to 1%, due to regulations.

I tried mixing
30% Silicone mix (15% dimethiconol, 85% cyclomethicone D5)
70% ethyl alcohol 95%
5% PVP K-30

and then without the PVP

30% Silicone mix (15% dimethiconol, 85% cyclomethicone D5)

70% ethyl alcohol 95%

in both experiments silicone formed an insoluble gunk
not soluble despite vigorous mixing.

The next week I’ll buy some pure cyclomethicone
and see if it’s really soluble in alcohol.

[Gunther]

Thank you @ozgirl

I’ll see if alcohols are readily soluble in cyclomethicone D5

The volatile alcohols are readily soluble in the cyclomethicone provided that water is substantially removed from the formulation. The inclusion of at least one volatile alcohol will substantially enhance the evaporation rate of the cyclomethicone…

…While not being limited by way of theory, it is believed that the volatile alcohols function to enhance the evaporation rate of the cyclomethicones through their solubility, by functioning as integral active chemical dispersants to increase volatility of the cyclomethicones…

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5338535

[Gunther]

I had great results with Croda’s BTMS-50
full name:  Incroquat Behenyl TMS-50
it’s able to emulsify at least its own weight of silicones.

Unfortunately it won’t be clear.
It’s whitish.

[Gunther]

You can definitely try with essential oils
but you’ll need to do microbial testing on products made with every single batch of essential oil
if EO is diluted or somehow subpotent, the product is no longer preserved = rotten

A high school mate, now a paramedic working at a hospital, told me dozens of people get skin rash because of essential oils
some even get rushed to ER (but mostly because they ingested essential oils).

[Gunther]

Making suntan/sunscreen products ain’t too hard
the hardest part is testing and registering your products to be able to claim a SPF figure on the label.