Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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Pharma said:Ascorbic acid is a stronger antioxidant than tocopherol and other phenolics. If you want to protect these, go with ascorbic acid for water soluble compounds or ascorbyl palmitate for oil soluble ones.Good read @Pharma, as you know I have a super duper oxidation issue with one of me developments, and I will try it today with both ascorbic acid and ascorbyl palmitate. That way I working in both phases. I did make an observation a while back, which I was not able to scientifically metabolize, I have that antioxidant blend I use (costly) that contains ascorbyl palmitate, various forms of E etc. When I used that in one of the samples of said product, it seemed to have the most reduced oxidation. I thought it was just my imagination….but maybe I/we are on to something!
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I should add….due to the CoQ10….that is a very orange oil. But nothing Montanov 202 can’t whiten back up.
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I use this (at 1%), and ROE of course in ever product. Works well.
DermaFix - Natural Skin Protection (ingredientstodiefor.com)
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PhilGeis said:How clean is your otameal
“Total count less than 100 colonies per gram.
Absence of recognized pathogens.”Would that be considered pretty clean?
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Bo77 said:“Do you consider beta glucan…an equal level of bug food as colloidal oatmeal? I would assume less….but do not know the entire chemistry.”
What I tried ( long time ago) was VenaSilk,( I think). Naturally derived from oat flour. 10% BG. INCI: hydrolyzed oat flour. ( hated it) but that’s not the point.
) What did you hate about it?
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jemolian said:pH 6 is the based on one of the recommendations i’ve seen, however recommended pH range varies from pH 5 to 7.5 based on different sources.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kqauq2uleybsrp9/RonaCare_Nicotinamide_TDS_.pdf?dl=0
Thank You.
You always have such helpful links and graphs!
If I can take things to 5.0…I will have a vast array of products to help in preservation!
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Bo77 said:I love to add Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate to my preservative combo. It goes under Suttocide A from Ashland. But it’s formaldehyde releaser, I don’t know if you looking for something more “natural”. But it’s “naturally derived”. I mix it with other preservatives like Silver Citrate and Citric Acid( Silverion) and bacillus ferment like AMTicide VAF(great for mold and yeast) this combo works very well for my products. Not all but most. Worked for cream with beta glucan in it.
EDIT: now I see you are looking for something no f releaser. Sorry.
Looking for: Yes
Will end up with: Not sure.Do you consider beta glucan…an equal level of bug food as colloidal oatmeal? I would assume less….but do not know the entire chemistry.
So on that note…. and this question is for everyone….of the F releasers, which one is most likely to fly under the consumer radar….as in which one will they most likely not be aware of….yet is still effective at a low rate?
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Bo77 said:Around 5 is fine. No problem. My face creams always come around 4.8 to 5.5. Never had any issues with regular niacinamide. I don’t remember who but some known company formulate some creams with B3 and their pH is high 4 low 5. They wrote about it. And Paula’s choice is going even lower, I think. But that would be pushing it, probably. Try it and you’ll see, right?
Yes I am well aware of this. However I always assumed when they were going into the lower ranges…there were using C6H6N2O, which can go there without issue. Unfortunately… Both forms have the exact same INCI…so one can never know!
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PhilGeis said:I’d not expect much from triethyl citrate and wonder at phenethyl if 9010.
Look at similar, marketed products, esp. those from major companies. Think adding a more water soluble preservative and something for fungi will help. Are you budgeted to do range finding PET testing?Yes, but only once or twice. Therefore trying to get it right, before spending the money. Which (more) water soluble preservatives would you have in mind?
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Bo77 said:For CBD I use only my local guys where I know the quality, I don’t buy CBD wholesale, that’s why it’s expensive.
Thank You. As I do not have ‘local guys’…I had searched…and found ‘LaurelCrest’ which seemed to have a professional website…..(I know…I know)… Was just curious if anyone can list a reputable seller of high quality CBD and reasonable prices?
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PhilGeis said:It is a project - prob end up with a complex system.
I did not realize until just in the past 48 hours, that triethyl citrate is used as a preservative. I keep this on the bench for another product. Just curious how you felt this fit into a program of E. 9010, chelator, Pentylene glycol, Phenethyl alcohol? Redundancy or extra layer?
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PhilGeis said:The bugs don’t need much to contaminate. Oatmeal certainly works for them as pharma said and also redcues preservative efficacy.
So I have spent way too many hours, trying to formulate a preservative program to accommodate the colloidal oatmeal, and have not yet come up with a component that I am comfortable with….that is neither a paraben or F releaser. Does it exist?
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One of my most valuable tools for me, has been a row of small clear bottles in a sunny window. This is various generations of lotion, and experiments. Some fell apart over time, and others look pristine after 10-11 months in a sunny window. Information that you cannot buy! Only of value if you mark the bottles with some sort of formula coding.
Therefore…the 3 cents of preservative it took, is well worth while to simulate an actual product. And to second what Phil said….they change a product! You will never know when you have the texture you want, if you are not working will a full deck. -
Are you familiar with the search bar in the top right corner?
Use that, and you will have hours upon hours of great reading. -
However…if your only goal is to get Chamazolene, then see the following link, it has 5X the amount of the blue Tansy. One of the amazing parts of New Directions….They provide complete GCMS analysis of all their products, which I have found invaluable when I am looking for certain constituents.
If you look at the GCMS of all the types of Chamomile they sell….there is a HUGE variation in the Chamazolene content. Below is 22%. (just part of the GCMS pasted below.)
Chamomile Moroc Essential Oil at Wholesale Prices (newdirectionsaromatics.com)
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Why not just buy it from the best EO supplier around???
Tansy Blue Essential Oil at Wholesale prices (newdirectionsaromatics.com)
They don’t sell fake stuff…like many of the sellers on the net.
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Seems like a reasonable formula, other than the Allantoin at 2%.
Just curious, since Allantoin is only .57% soluble in water, are you using the other portion as a derm abrasion product?
Allantoin solubility:
Water: 0.57% (25 °C); ethanol (96%): 0.04% (25 °C); eth/water (1/1): 0.35% (25 °C); propylene glycol/water (1/1): 0.40% (25 °C); glycerol/water (1/1): 0.60% (25 °C)
Or is there a better solubilizer I am not aware of?
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Mele Kalikimaka
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ngarayeva001 said:They make great shampoos too. Argan oil is their most known I believe. This is what I used to buy before I started dabbling in surfactants. All of them are made of Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate and CAPB. Some include SCI (looking at position at LOI I would guess at low%). I am lucky as olefin sulfonate is dirt cheap in the UK, so it’s one of my favorite anionic surfactants.
Just for my curiosity….looking at that INCI of the Argan Shampoo….what would you guess it the inclusion rate? Thinking .1% or did they go crazy…and put .5% in there?
INCI: Water (Aqua), Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, PPG-2 Hydroxyethyl Coco/Isostearamide, Argania Spinosa (Argan) Kernel Oil, Panthenol, Dimethicone, Amodimethicone, Glycol Stearate, PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Dioleate, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Polyquaternium-6, Polyquaternium-10, Laureth-4, Laureth-23, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Cetrimonium Chloride, Trideceth-12, Citric Acid, Fragrance (Parfum), Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Red 40 (CI 16035).
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Regarding the mattifying effects of Montanov 202, it provides a matte finish or application on the skin. As it’s not a sebum absorber like Polymethylsilsesquioxane or starches, so it doesn’t really mattify oily skin. For example, one of the reason i use Montanov 202 is that i use about 1.5% to 3% of Squalane for my body lotion, 202 provides a matte look so i don’t look as shiny compared to other emulsifiers.
Regarding stability wise, my gel creams created with Olivem 1000, Montanov 68, 202, L, etc, has been stable and has never spilt over time, it depends on your combination. I always use Aristoflex or Sepinov EMT 10 as my main emulsifier and the traditional emulsifiers are there to add stability by reducing the oil particle size.
I will second what J said. Working with the Montanov series simply requires working within the mfg’s parameters. Getting the temp right, suporting with anionic co-emulsifiers, and adding polymerics for texture and one more layer of stability. I have never had a Montanov cream break post production. If you cream splits soon after production, than you have not met the requirements that emulsifier needed, or you added an ingredient that was upsetting the system.
And matte appearance is dictated far more with your other components. I think what the mfg is saying is: It is certainly possible to create a matte finish with 202, as it is not shiny in and of itself.
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Cafe33 said:Which silicon dioxide did you?
Aerosil 200
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Cafe33 said:Hi, what is it that you are trying to do again? There are patents on using Silicon Dioxide as part of a perfume encapsulation system. Usually something like like 2-5% of the total system is used with the perfume consisting of 30% or so.
My experience:
Cafe33 said:Yes colloidal silicon dioxide will absorb oil fairly efficiently from my experience. My first test was to place some peppermint oil onto some Aerosil. I think I used something like 1g of Oil to 0.5g of Aerosil. It absorbed it fully and remained in solid state, powder was still “flowable”. I left it in an open beakers for weeks, even well past a month and the smell was just as strong as day 1 (IMO). Keep in mind that it was Summer months, and the room Temp could climb to 30-31C.That is what I can offer. As for leave on skin products concerning abrasion, I do not know. My experience relates to oral use and rinse off hair products. I did make some oil gels using Aerosil with almond, Jojoba and natrasil oils if I remember, and there is some documentation through Evoniks that details percentages to use and viscosity of different oils. Maybe you can look into it by contacting Evoniks?
As for the rinse off products, 45-50% Aerosil use according to fragrance was definitely impressive. I think your testing range should be 10-50% based on the fragrance.
As I am working on a mosquito repellent, I am only looking for a few hours of retention. I did some trials, and yes silicon dioxide has an uncanny ability to absorb oil. One dish was in a solid paste state (Grapefruit essential oil), one was at about a syrup stage, and of course had one that was just pure EO. At 48 hours, I could not detect an enhancement of scent retention in the oils containing silicon dioxide. So at this time I will not pursue this avenue. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
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elirit said:Also how do you feel about ethylhexyl palmitate and acne?
Those were just 3 examples of lite emollients. No thought given to comedogenic ratings.
I use it only in body/hand lotions now. It has not been included in my face creams.
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That stick blender is one of the few….that is infinitely adjustable…so can run at 0 rpm, 100 rpm 1000 rpm or 10,000 rpm +… So it can both emulsify…and stir a bit at really low rpm. (I only do that with warm lotion…which is thin at the time.) Depending on which emulsifier you are using….they can be very sensitive to the equipment used during stirring… If you want total forgiveness…use the 165 emulsifier + thickners.
However…it can not stir for long amounts of time (will get too hot)….so not an adequate stirrer….plus anything like that is ineffective for stirring something thick like a cream.
You would laugh…if you saw my stirrer.
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Look at this picture (what I use).
Not saying that is what you need…but a good start. With the attachment on the right…you can create gifts for friends that love you.
With the attachment on the left… You can sell products.
On the left…you see how close the tolerance is between the bell…and the blades….that is how you create shear / emulsion.