Graillotion
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Thinking outside the box on soaping. - Chemists Corner
Take a peek at this old thread.
chemistscorner.com
Thinking outside the box on soaping. - Chemists Corner
First let me say, I have no issues with soaping, I use the Gold standard, the Silver standard, and the Bronze standard and the participation…
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You hit the nail on the head, supporting the Montanov’s with a kiss of anionic emulsifier. As they are inherently weak emulsifiers, this is just what the Doctor ordered. (And the model the mfg often recommends in the very small print, at least 3 pages deep….so it does not conflict with their earlier claims of the emulsifier being robust. 😂 )
It does not take much of SSG to get the job done from as little as .25% to maybe up to .4% (I typically use the .25% rate.)
Emulsifiers is more about using the right amount for your oil phase, than how many you use. Each time you add one (if you think it is necessary), you reduce in another area.
Regarding soaping….that is usually as simple as adding a silicone oil…(dimethicone, or even cyclomethicone) will usually get the job done….often making the product feel better and perform better as a side benefit.
Soaping is also often a sign of using too much emulsifier. Since you did not give formula….cannot speculate on the topic.
There are numerous hacks for soaping….but dimethicone is the good old….’One and done’ solution. I think I have done a thread on this topic….if I find it… I’ll link it.
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It is not uncommon to have a different end result (haptically and viscosity speaking), when there is an equipment change. Sometimes to the extent that you slightly tweak the formula….to compensate.
There are a lot of details missing from your scenario…. sometime when you add a machine that actually creates shear (Misceo/Dynamic with the right head) … you can damage some things like polymerics, or various other steric hinderance creations….that lesser stick blenders did not damage. In cases like this… one would simply add them after the emulsification process, and sometime temperature appropriate to the stirring phase.
I typically shear for 2 minutes…. at a temp above 65 C….as this will not harm lamellar emulsions. The balance of the time is spent under the stirrer.
Once I shear for two min….then I stir to cooldown. Commonly I shear again when the last few ingredients are added at cooldown, at the end for 30-45 seconds….to assure perfect incorporation. If I manage to not introduce any air….I pour…. if I ‘ooop’sed’ then I toss it back on the stirrer for a minute or two….and life is good again.
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Use rate is 5 to 10X higher than should be. Range it between .05 and .1%.
You did not say…are there even natural oils to protect in the formula? (Do you need the E)
Acetate form does not protect oils…so if that is the goal, don’t select that form.
There are alternatives…. Like Rosemary oil extract.
Since you did not list the formula….it could also me something entirely differently.
Good Luck.
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You can see the discussion on Vit E here: At bullet point #4 (Your research will lead you to this eventually….if you stay off the beginner sites.)
How to Formulate Like a Pro - (makingskincare.com)
makingskincare.com
Formulate cosmetics like a pro -
With over 35,000 students already, this article reveals essential tips & tricks to make safe organic skin and hair cosmetics. Formulation tips and tricks.
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Goes in the oily phase.
As with anything in this broad category (emollients)….there are many aspects to consider. I once tried to put this in a deodorant for people with sensitive armpit skin (me)…. I almost went to the hospital! Solvents often get lumped into the emollient section. Never forget that skin is coated in sebum….and solvents dissolve sebum. Hence you have to look at your emollients/solvents very closely for what you are attempting to accomplish.
Probably the first category break-out would be volatility….the one you mentioned is volatile. If this is a requirement? If so, you have knocked many of the candidates out of the race.
For me, D5 was the perfect replacement….it could be used on sensitive skin with no need to be dialing 9-1-1 while applying. (Of course, D5 is not really gonna deliver actives….but there is a myriad of ways to get that done.) * Note: C Ultimate could be used on any of my other skin parts that are not as sensitive skin!
So, an early take-away I had to learn….was…. many emollients are solvents, and how much of that aspect do I want in the product. Penetration enhancers…well, they are a dime a dozen.
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You have not listed any credible preservatives. You may need to hit rewind….and consider better preservatives.
Preservative Reviews - (makingskincare.com)
Things that maintain pH are called buffers. Things like Arginine will alter pH to a desired point, but generally will not continue to hold them in place like a buffer.
I would consider starting with better preservatives, and seeing if the pH drift continues. I assume you are using a meter to take these readings?
When discussing a topic like this…we need more information. Things like is urea in the product or gluconolactone…etc…etc… It is very hard to address a concern…when lots of guessing is involved. (You did not even tell us which way the pH is drifting. 😉 )
Good Luck.
makingskincare.com
Which natural preservative is best - we review over 20 -
Most preservatives fail preservative tests. We review over 20 and reveal the best. Natural preservatives for skin care.
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I don’t see the correlation between deodorant and your question…. Just look at any ready made emulsifier…use 165 type as an example….generally the ratio is 2 parts GMS to 1 part PEG 100. Look at something that has cetearyl alcohol and Ceteareth 20….you will find similar. This is consistent around the industry. Read any of George Deckners blurbs in the knowledge center…and you’ll see these ratios mentioned with frequency.
Answer is NO in regards to, does having more low hlb than high….make it W/O. This is often the case in O/W. GMS is often used as a thickener in O/W emulsions.
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Just for fun…. a simple test to determine W/O vs O/W is put a drop of the emulsion into a beaker of water. Swirl (not mechanically) and if the emulsion starts to disseminate in the water…it is likely O/W. If it stays very intact…not wanting to play with the water…it is likely W/O.
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myskinrecipes.com
For use with Vitamin B3 (Niacinamide) acts as a whitening and can remove dark spots. Including stimulating the skin to naturally produce Hyaluronic Acid. making it possible to reduce wrinkles
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Just happened to have this page open…when you called. Might be able to glean some insight here:
Z-WhiteTM (Zinc Glycinate) (myskinrecipes.com)
myskinrecipes.com
Was developed according to the purpose Who want to search for whitening substances or to whiten the skin, a new group with a different mechanism of action than the old group that is used today To be able to work … Continue reading
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As my mentor taught me… the silicones (unless you are using silicone emulsifiers specifically) are the most difficult ingredient to emulsify in the entire product. Hence…you want it in there as EARLY as possible…so it gets the WHOLE emulsifying experience, start to finish.
Obviously Dimethicone above 6cst is not volatile…and not heat sensitive as well.
(And even if it was volatile…we would just end up getting a lecture on vapour pressures and boiling points…and being a ‘dumb American’) 😂
Aloha.
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I was gonna go with sand paper….😉
but how about pairing the Niacinamide with some NAC? That is usually a good combo. Use the NAC at half the rate of the Niacinamide.
I’ll also go with….any licorice extract is worthless…. get the direct derivatives.
Here is a sample of what they have..and what they do, from my go to supplier:
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Well……….. Candelilla Wax can be quite yellow.
Typically when we have issues…..we do what is called a ‘knockout’ test… to confirm our suspicions of a problem ingredient. I’d say you have two.
Make very small batches in one, leave out the E
In the other leave out the C wax. (You could sub in an alternate…that is not colored.)
See what your result is.
Note: even if the issue is with C wax….make sure you reduce your E levels to functional amounts. Using as much as you did….actually has negative properties! (Too much of a good thing.)
Aloha.
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Very. 😉
What scientific. peer reviewed material are you basing a need for higher rates of allantoin than can go into water?
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As mentioned… Caprylhydroxamic Acid, has some chelating activity….so gonna eat up your copper. In my mind, that is the only good thing about Caprylhydroxamic Acid….is the chelating aspect. Every other aspect is intensely negative.
Lose the peptide, or keep it at .001% for marketing material.
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@Kireisha what chelate and what preservative are you using? Is there something more than ‘caprylhydroxamic acid’ in the mixture?
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Sorry…typo. Should have been NAG!
Classic combo for whitening.
n-acetyl glucosamine
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Do you have any idea…. how much edta you eat every day…should you partake in any type of processed food? 😂
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If it makes you feel any better, use the PE 9010 at .85% and the chelate at .15%….and bingo….you have elevated your preservation beyond belief…and not changed your ratios. 😉
Another one that can usually be passed off on those that don’t understand chemistry is… GLDA, aka TSGD.
Good luck.
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Actually…the test I gave is probably a poor metric. Even mercury is volatile…and I doubt you could live long enough….to see one drop completely volatilize. 😂
People just seem to lose their minds….when they hear the word ‘volatile’.
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Maybe this little piece of perspective will help.
The entities in society that are tasked with your well being ….wait for it …. have NO INTEREST in cosmetics….and how you look. 😉 Hence those entities tend to focus on cancer…and major health issues. FOCUS = FUNDING. So….if those tasked with societal research don’t care about cosmetics….whom is left….you know…who is doing the studies on cosmetics? Simple…..those with a vested financial interest, that stand to gain. So, you have just established that the fox is guarding the chicken house.
Will let you put the rest of the pieces in place. 😉
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Ahh….the classic ‘cosmetic study’…. please understand, I am giggling so hard…it is hard to stay in my recliner.
There is pretty much a ‘study’ for every cosmetic ingredient that is backed by a company that can afford a study. Dr Michelle Wong actually did a really good piece (slightly different topic…but exact same line of thought) where she spends a LOT of the time…. focusing on what gets presented as peer reviewed scientific studies. If you interested in educating yourself…take the 28 minutes to watch her video. The topic is about another magical ingredients….and what ends up getting references (studies)….as something legit.
Please enjoy her video…. will help you understand what you’re up against….a bit better: (memba…don’t let the topic throw you….she spend a lot of the video…focusing on how things are presented in the industry.
Aloha.
Rosemary oil for hair growth? How to spot bad science (youtube.com)
youtube.com
Rosemary oil for hair growth? How to spot bad science
Is rosemary oil an all-natural, science-backed treatment for hair loss that works as well as minoxidil? No. Let's take a closer look at the study that everyo...
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depending on the brand….often the line is between 5 and 6.
Easy to answer…. leave a drop out on a surface that it cannot penetrate….and see if it is there tomorrow…. Bingo…you have your answer.
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I am saying….it is irrelevant…add it early (to the oil phase). Lots of bad lore on the topic.
I add my D5… to the oil phase…before heating. Really long technical expose from Pharma on this topic. So, I’ll have to go with….just trust me. 😉 You know…vapour pressures…boiling points of volatile silicones….