Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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I don’t see the correlation between deodorant and your question…. Just look at any ready made emulsifier…use 165 type as an example….generally the ratio is 2 parts GMS to 1 part PEG 100. Look at something that has cetearyl alcohol and Ceteareth 20….you will find similar. This is consistent around the industry. Read any of George Deckners blurbs in the knowledge center…and you’ll see these ratios mentioned with frequency.
Answer is NO in regards to, does having more low hlb than high….make it W/O. This is often the case in O/W. GMS is often used as a thickener in O/W emulsions.
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Just for fun…. a simple test to determine W/O vs O/W is put a drop of the emulsion into a beaker of water. Swirl (not mechanically) and if the emulsion starts to disseminate in the water…it is likely O/W. If it stays very intact…not wanting to play with the water…it is likely W/O.
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myskinrecipes.com
For use with Vitamin B3 (Niacinamide) acts as a whitening and can remove dark spots. Including stimulating the skin to naturally produce Hyaluronic Acid. making it possible to reduce wrinkles
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Just happened to have this page open…when you called. Might be able to glean some insight here:
Z-WhiteTM (Zinc Glycinate) (myskinrecipes.com)
myskinrecipes.com
Was developed according to the purpose Who want to search for whitening substances or to whiten the skin, a new group with a different mechanism of action than the old group that is used today To be able to work … Continue reading
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As my mentor taught me… the silicones (unless you are using silicone emulsifiers specifically) are the most difficult ingredient to emulsify in the entire product. Hence…you want it in there as EARLY as possible…so it gets the WHOLE emulsifying experience, start to finish.
Obviously Dimethicone above 6cst is not volatile…and not heat sensitive as well.
(And even if it was volatile…we would just end up getting a lecture on vapour pressures and boiling points…and being a ‘dumb American’) 😂
Aloha.
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I was gonna go with sand paper….😉
but how about pairing the Niacinamide with some NAC? That is usually a good combo. Use the NAC at half the rate of the Niacinamide.
I’ll also go with….any licorice extract is worthless…. get the direct derivatives.
Here is a sample of what they have..and what they do, from my go to supplier:
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As mentioned,…you have come out of the gate with a conflicting statement. Deo’s do not contain aluminum.
When I steer people in the direction, they need to go…. I start with…. having them list the issues they are trying to address….and then across from the issues…. listing a solution. Otherwise, you just fall into the horrible mommy-blogger potions…that wreck your skin and clothing, and you still stink.
Secondly….there are two thought processes involved….do I want to wreck my skin and acid mantle, and use high pH ingredients? Or do I want to take a more skin friendly approach and use lower pH ingredients. All components of the product must work together for the common goal (pH). You cannot pick and choose some high pH ingredients and some low, you must pick a theme and stick with it. Keep in mind….even an anhydrous product will create a pH once it is applied to skin. I think beginners forget this.
Note: Even considering Baking soda is a strong indication you do not understand skin and its pH. 😉
You listed 3 forms of Zinc, two are anti-microbial, and one is not, but is purported to ‘catch’ odor. Zinc PCA should be the most effective, granted I have never used a zinc in a deo (which means I view that there are much better ways to get said job done).
Adding vegetables oils….that is 100% mommy blogger lore. When you go back to your list of what the issues are…you will notice you wrote….’Sweating’. Adding an occlusive ingredient will only make this worse…. You should also notice….you did not write vegetable oils in your solution column. Coconut oil is the worst mommy blogger scam lore I have ever seen. They have no concept of science, and since they have heard that lauric acid is antimicrobial, they think it will help in a deo. NO! All you have to do is apply that grossness to your pits for a day….and you will understand. When lauric acid is bound in a triglyceride (aka coconut oil), it no longer has the same effect as free lauric acid. If you want the punch of lauric acid…you add monolaurin….NOT coconut oil… That is a lose lose…on every level. Note for extra credit…. Some really low-quality coconut oil will have a small amount of free lauric acid…because the coconuts were allowed to rot, before processing (yes fermentation is one way to break the triglyceride bond).
Essential oils at the rates they can be safely applied to skin, are weak anti-microbials, and often an irritant. Irritants are exacerbated when skin rubs on skin all day.
So….if you put an insoluble powder in your product….where is it gonna end up???? Do you want it there? Addition of insoluble powders is generally a result of making earlier formulation errors, like putting grease in the product. Skip the first error, and you can skip the second error. 🙂
So go back to your list of concerns… and focus on ingredients that are truly anti-microbial (I gave you one), and make sure you nail that. Then work on the other aspects on your list. Memba…if you add powders to sop things up….and your formula is full of grease….all the sopping it can do…..is already done!
Good luck.
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Where I am from, Oliwax LC has this inci: Cetyl Palmitate (and) Sorbitan Palmitate (and) Sorbitan Olivate
I have used it a few times…. but found it not much different, than using Cetyl palmitate, by itself.
I think I prefer just Myristyl Myristate in this space, (of course with fatty alcohols, etc). But as always….just depends on what you are trying to make…and accomplish.
Good Luck.
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The biggest jump I ever made in formulation….was when I cut all oils by 50-70%, and added polymethylsilsesquioxane and pentylene glycol to the bench, and I guess while we’re at it….let’s not forget D5.
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Sorry…typo. Should have been NAG!
Classic combo for whitening.
n-acetyl glucosamine
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Do you have any idea…. how much edta you eat every day…should you partake in any type of processed food? 😂
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If it makes you feel any better, use the PE 9010 at .85% and the chelate at .15%….and bingo….you have elevated your preservation beyond belief…and not changed your ratios. 😉
Another one that can usually be passed off on those that don’t understand chemistry is… GLDA, aka TSGD.
Good luck.
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Actually…the test I gave is probably a poor metric. Even mercury is volatile…and I doubt you could live long enough….to see one drop completely volatilize. 😂
People just seem to lose their minds….when they hear the word ‘volatile’.
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Maybe this little piece of perspective will help.
The entities in society that are tasked with your well being ….wait for it …. have NO INTEREST in cosmetics….and how you look. 😉 Hence those entities tend to focus on cancer…and major health issues. FOCUS = FUNDING. So….if those tasked with societal research don’t care about cosmetics….whom is left….you know…who is doing the studies on cosmetics? Simple…..those with a vested financial interest, that stand to gain. So, you have just established that the fox is guarding the chicken house.
Will let you put the rest of the pieces in place. 😉
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Ahh….the classic ‘cosmetic study’…. please understand, I am giggling so hard…it is hard to stay in my recliner.
There is pretty much a ‘study’ for every cosmetic ingredient that is backed by a company that can afford a study. Dr Michelle Wong actually did a really good piece (slightly different topic…but exact same line of thought) where she spends a LOT of the time…. focusing on what gets presented as peer reviewed scientific studies. If you interested in educating yourself…take the 28 minutes to watch her video. The topic is about another magical ingredients….and what ends up getting references (studies)….as something legit.
Please enjoy her video…. will help you understand what you’re up against….a bit better: (memba…don’t let the topic throw you….she spend a lot of the video…focusing on how things are presented in the industry.
Aloha.
Rosemary oil for hair growth? How to spot bad science (youtube.com)
youtube.com
Rosemary oil for hair growth? How to spot bad science
Is rosemary oil an all-natural, science-backed treatment for hair loss that works as well as minoxidil? No. Let's take a closer look at the study that everyo...
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depending on the brand….often the line is between 5 and 6.
Easy to answer…. leave a drop out on a surface that it cannot penetrate….and see if it is there tomorrow…. Bingo…you have your answer.
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I am saying….it is irrelevant…add it early (to the oil phase). Lots of bad lore on the topic.
I add my D5… to the oil phase…before heating. Really long technical expose from Pharma on this topic. So, I’ll have to go with….just trust me. 😉 You know…vapour pressures…boiling points of volatile silicones….
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Thank you for saying this, as you may have shaved years off of a frustrating journey. In our societies where we are inundated with marketing stories…whom seek to blend fact with fiction, it is often difficult for those starting out, to be able to realize not everything is as it seems. 😉
The reason the government allows people to play in cosmetics without much in the way of regulation….is because beyond a few things like moisturization, they are not doing much. If they actually did…they would quickly move into the drug category.
Good luck.
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As shown….some of the commercial brands are dropping below 4. As you go down from 4, your subset of customers that might find some irritation will slowly climb. It also becomes a challenge to find an emulsifier that will be happy.
In a recent project, where I wanted to use an emulsifier that was happiest no lower than 4.5, I played with the higher pH’s, and found at 4.5 I still had the efficacy I wanted…but began to lose it at 4.9.
Now keep it mind…I am using a world class set of anti-microbials, not the garden variety type seen in internet/low grade commercial products. So, I would have to suspect, that a lesser slate would lose efficacy MUCH faster with pH modulations.
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You have missed my point…. completely. Insoluble powders transfer to dark clothing…. simply an inexcusable mess…. Especially considering the jobs they do…can be done better…with ingredients that don’t preclude you from wearing anything but white. 😉
Well, good luck with your project. Over and Out.
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Might be a good time to review my ALL TIME FAVORITE thread on this site. I like it soooooooo much…. I have considered changing my screen name to: ‘Guffawing Henry’
Especially read the 2nd entry from Pharma! Priceless.
mixing magnesium Hydroxide and bicarb of soda - Chemists Corner
chemistscorner.com
mixing magnesium Hydroxide and bicarb of soda - Chemists Corner
HelloI am trying to mix the above products but the mag keeps chrystallising, anyone any ideas to stop this happening please?thanks
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Um….if you think Zinc Ricinolate is anti-microbial….you misunderstood the ingredient. My comment about two of the three being anti-microbial…..excluded the Zinc Ricinolate. Not to say it doesn’t do something in deo….it does…. just now what the other forms of Zinc do.
A good deo…has many aspects….modes of action.
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There are not 10,000 experts.
Some of the ingredients you listed…are NOT soluble in either water or oil (aka: cream). 😉
What you consider ‘professional’ and what I consider professional….are probably very different. As I tell the beginners over and over…. sales does NOT translate to expertise!!!
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One place to start….is pH of final product. A lot of the ones that get dragged into conversations with beginners…are more oriented towards higher pH, and laundry detergent ranges.
However, Sodium Phytate and Phytic acid….will work down in the cosmetic range. They are interchangeible….just depending on if your finished product need pH up or pH down….each does the opposite. They are however…about the worst possible choice…should you be using something cationic… like a BTMS type emulsifier. They have four X the amount of (wrong) charges of say edta or my favorite… GLDA.
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That sound like a good starting place, it can be used from .01 to .3%. When I was working with it….I was using the higher end of the range…as I was trying to keep Vanillin from oxidizing and was using big piles of vanillin….like several percent! (I never succeeded….and this was in the combination with the most brilliant mind to ever grace this site!) Good news is… nothing worse than a big pile of Vanillin!
To evaluate your success….put finished product in a clear container….and in a sunny window….won’t be long…before you can evaluate success or failure.