[Graillotion]

When making a deo, you must have a detailed plan before you start, then pick the ingredients that match your plan.

So as an example….high pH (Yuck), you pick things that fit that format.  Low pH (and your pits say….ahhhh) you pick from a different grouping of ingredients.

Some will pick to prevent the bacteria from producing odor to begin with (good idea), and some will think…if only I can trap the stink, before it reaches someone else’s nose (hmmmn…is that really a viable plan).  And you pick ingredients accordingly.

So make your plan….then you choose ingredients that match your plan, not a hap-hazard shopping spree at the re-packer.

Enjoy the journey.

Oh…and take the pH much lower.

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suswang8 said:

A sales rep told me 90 seconds was a safe runtime, but I would imagine it depends on the viscosity.

Also, I thought this device was known for introducing a bit more air than is ideal, but I am not sure.

I run mine for a timed 2 minutes upon combining phases, and yes it will get warm, but the machine is designed for that.  I also use it on and off while working with the aqueous phase, as I tend to use a lot of powders, and throughout the pH adjusting process in the aqueous phase.

Regarding introducing air…that would be 100% user error.  Proper beaker shape, and keeping the head submerged, and no human error, this device will not introduce air, other than if you accidently create a vortex down to the level of the vents.

My comments are based on the emulsifying head, as stick blender heads are well known for creating messes.

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chemicalmatt said:

Here’s a hack for allantoin solvation: urea greatly increases allantoin solubility in water. Add them both: one a skin protectant the other a skin softener.

@chemicalmatt I use a slightly different version of urea, HydroVance, aka: Hydroxyethyl Urea.  Would you say this hack works with this as well?

I guess the next logical question would be, is there any (proven) benefit, taking allantoin higher than .5%?

Aloha.

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Oh…the other thing that separates the Dynamic from many others….and something I find INCREDIBLY  useful…it has infinitely adjustable speed….from 1 rpm….on up.  A lot of other options in this category, does not have the precise adjustability….which you will eventually find….critical.

[Graillotion]

This is what you want to end up with.  You can check pricing…piecing it together.

Dynamic MiniPro MX069.1 Blender/ Homogenizer, 6.5, 115V Commercial Food Blenders - BakeDeco.Com

Dynamic AC560 7 1/2″ Blender Tool for MiniPro Mixer (katom.com)

Dynamic MX070.13 4 qt Immersion Blender w/ Variable Speed Motor, 115v (katom.com)

Dynamic MX070.13 Black/White Handheld Mixer, Used Excellent Condition General Food Preparation - BakeDeco.Com

Most of these places will give you 10% off your first purchase…is you sign up for their e-mail newsletter.

Enjoy the beast…and trust me…… buy the good one right out of the gate, instead of buying something lesser, then having to buy the good one a month or two down the road (cheaper buying just one, instead of two).

Aloha

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Dynamix is the way to go…for a few hundred dollars.  But be sure to get the emulsifying head, as that is one of the more important aspects.  You can save a lot of $$$, by buying them as a package up front.

When I am formulating, I typically make 150 gram batches, and that head fits perfectly in a (narrow) tall form 250 gram beaker.

I’ll see if I can find the link…for that combo, and send it on, later.

Nothing else in the ‘stick blender world’ comes remotely close.  And just beastly quality.

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PhilGeis said:

HBO wouldn’t air it if it wasn’t a hit piece.

I suspected as much…but I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt…at least once.  

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@Perry or others, I have seen the reference to the HBO documentary several times now.  I am completely unfamiliar with what they said, or the premise.

Is this something that is horrible misinformation and media spin… or is this something that is well done and accurate?

Also…I do not have TV of any kind…(sorry, gathering knowledge takes precedent over entertainment)… is there another format I can view this?  Amazon Prime, YouTube….etc???

I would like to view it…no matter which category it falls into.

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GeorgeBenson said:

The other issue im having with my blue tansy oil is that even at tiny amounts the smell is way too strong. I still want the cream to end up slightly blue but i cant do that without it being overpowered by the tansy smell. An ideal blue tansy oil would be one that is just as blue but not as aromatic. I will try ordering some from new directions and see if it works better for me.

Hard for me to comment on the smell, as the pain cream I am adding it to, already has a profound smell.  I will tell you this, I don’t use much of it.  I typically make 180 gram batches, and I add 7-8 drops while hand stirring, until the color is where I want it.  I then put the product in a dark blue glass jar, which further accentuates the blue color.

As far as adding a secondary AntiOx, I would sure look at ROE.  If you are ordering from NDA…I think they even carry ROE.  Use in in conjunction with MT E.  (I also get my mixed T E, from NDA.)

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I would love to see a small ‘barrier to entry’ for individuals seeking to sell cosmetic products to the public.  I think (do not know) that the EU has some kind of minimal testing, and ingredient review for individuals looking to sell to the public.

As someone that interacts with the beginners… it just absolutely instills ‘shock and awe’ in me…of what they want to sell.

How many times have I heard this… “I made my first emulsion this week, it is not stable and beginning to mold, but I really like it, and want to start selling it next week.”   No exaggeration…this type of statement is very common.

The public deserves to be protected from this.

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I use blue tansy as a colorant in one of my main products….never had this issue.

Are you using containers that don’t allow light?

Are you buying the BT from a reputable source, like New Directions Aromatics?

What is your AntiOx program?

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Cost.

All though, my chemist suggested to me, that lactic is more skin friendly.

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Karo_lina said:

Abdullah said:

Yes it is completely safe. 

What are the ingredients?

so, won’t you have irritated and reddened skin after using a cosmetic with a pH of 3.5, twice a day for half a year?

I have a daily use cream deo…that was tested at 3.8 for a while.   Most people this was no issue.  I did have a single subject where this did cause mild irritation.  When I took the formula to 4.4, no one experienced any irritation.

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I understand industry standards are using demineralized/deionized water PLUS a chelate.  Trying to understand why.  Now I would assume part of this would be any other water-based ingredients that might come to the show… but there are plenty that do not have much more than just water in the liquid portion of the aqueous phase.

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Mandy007 said:

MarkBroussard said:

@Mandy:

Two options:  (1) Heat the Allantoin + 1,3-Propanediol to 50C … should dissolve right away.  Or, as @ketchito mentioned, just add the Allantoin directly to the emulsion when it cools to 50C and homogenize.  The Allantoin will dissolve in the emulsion.

 If I heat the Allantoin in the 1,3 Propanediol, how do I avoid recrystallization ?  I know allantoin is famous for recrystallizing if heated hence why I have not tried any methods that require me to heat it. 

I think the main reason people get recrystallization is because they are trying to over saturate the solution with allantoin.  Keeping your levels at the .5, you should be fine.  However, to be nit-picky…it should be .5% of your water soluble ingredients…hehehe… not .5% of total formula.

As Mark said…a little heat…should make that slip right into solution…. but not necessary. 

[Graillotion]

If looking for a (more) natural replacement for D5, you could look at 

Neossance Hemisqualane

aka: INCI: C13-15 Alkane

I make an emulsified deo, but it is a thick cream.  I tried to replace the D5 with this, and I could not get the desired effect, but am told it is the closest of the ‘more natural’ options.

Just my opinion, but if I were going to make a water thin emulsion…. I would probably start my journey with sucrose stearate as a backbone.  (Will probably need a little support.)

I also concur that using something like CCT vs a liquid wax, might be prudent.

Aloha.

[Graillotion]

I have seen this story recounted before.  In those cases, the client hamstrung the chemist right out of the gate, with wanting poor choices, likes oils and butters included in a deodorant.

Typically, it is far easier to start over and reformulate, than try and make the poor choices fit a product they should not be in.  Sometimes, a few $$$ poorer and a little life experience down the road, one becomes more open to different ideas.

Often times Indie brands will put tiny amounts of interesting sounding ingredients into a formula (which has no effect or sensory), and then someone trying to dupe their success gets caught up in their sleight of hand.

Your issues might get solved for free…if you post the formula.

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GeorgeBenson said:

@Camel how do humectants like glycerin and propanediol help with preservation? Not doubting you I just honestly dont know.

They lower the water activity…. Good research project for you.  

You know…any product that has enough glycols…can be self-preserving.  Lots of the extracts and the likes sold on by repackers…are preserved with this method.

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ascorbic acid, NAC, Sodium metabisulfite, Sodium thiosulfate (sodium thiosulphate)

One of the last two (I forget which one at the moment)…is what they sell the mommy bloggers as an anti-browning agent for vanillin.  They sell it under the INCI: Fragrance.   

The last 3…are all pretty fragrant…but used at very low rates…so typically if you have any fragrance at all in the product, it will not carry through.

Why do you think you have oxidation (in the water phase)?  Make sure you are not confusing something like tannins in tea…with oxidation.

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Syl said:

@Graillotion, Thank you for this vendor info and sharing your ice cream maker for making lotion. I really appreciate your comments in this forum.  

Sadly…as meticulous as I am in formulating…the same aspect applies to COG’s.  Even though I am basically paying worst case scenario…repacker prices, I still search for the best value.  VALUE….not lowest cost.  I actually waste a lot of money…buying the same thing from all possible vendors, then deciding who has the best version of item X…and then I pay WHATEVER price it takes, to get the best version….Go figure.

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Hehe…pick your $15 value.  I suppose one could argue…the one on the right…takes up too much space? 

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Shiro said:

GeorgeBenson said:

@Graillotion i dont know the answers to your question about soaping but i really want to try TEC, i’ve been curious about it for a while. Is there anywhere to buy it in smaller amounts? I havent seen it anywhere. You said you use it in deodorant, does it help deodorize? 

I recently bought 80mL TEC at Perfumer’s Apprentice.

Many, MANY times more expensive there.  For the same $15 you paid…you can get half a kilo here:  Buy Triethyl Citrate (TEC) Online Store - Essential Natural Oils

TEC is a really inexpensive ingredient, not sure why they always want to tear your head off?

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GeorgeBenson said:

@Graillotion any specific way you then mix the oil phase containing zen into the water or it doesn’t really matter?

GeorgeBenson said:

@Graillotion any specific way you then mix the oil phase containing zen into the water or it doesn’t really matter?

Doesn’t seem to matter…. I use moderate shear for two min, followed by ice cream maker stirring to full cool down.

Keep in mind…it does not dissolve or hydrate in oil, so it will basically just be sediment in the oil phase until it meets with water.

[Graillotion]

I use Zen extensively in creams.  I always add it to the oil phase.  It does nothing there…just sits…so time is irrelevant.  Then when phases are combined it is activated.  I do not like working with thick water phases, so this alleviates this concern.

But the answer is…it works in any phase.  Just use the one you prefer.

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GeorgeBenson said:

@Graillotion what ratio do you typically use when solubilizing oils with it? I know it varies greatly with the type of oil but for instance if I am currently using Polysorbate 20/EO at 4:1 is it typical to use about the same amount of TEC, or less/more?

And does it ever cause a ph drift downward?

Well…I have only used it for EO’s on a mosquito lotion.  In that project I used it at 1%.

I think pH drift tends to upwards…things like urea.  And TEC is good at keeping it where you set it.