Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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Thank you all for the humorous responses. Many chuckles.
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mikeylamar said:And how wouldnt cyclomethicone evaporate during the heat and hold phase?
It would…and why it is added at cooldown.
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It would be in the oil phase….if it were added to a phase, and would never be in a heat and hold situation. -
That is ramen noodles… so starts out like a luffa sponge, and you end up with….soup!
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You have only listed a partial preservative, that ONLY works in a given pH range…and NOT listed a pH of the product (or did I miss that in my cursory scan).
I guess my first question is… How do you know your product is not rotting…instead of oxidizing? I guess…I would start by using a proper preservation system, then see how things perform beyond that point. One step at a time.
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MarkBroussard said:@Anca_Formulator
Yes, Propanediol would function as a preservative booster. Caprylyl Glycol is a bit better as it’s mode of action is to help weaken the microbial cell wall, but it does reduce viscosity in creams.
Just curious @M@MarkBroussard, I would not assume Propanediol and CG would be swapped at a 1:1 basis (as far as hurdle technology is concerned). How much Propanediol would you guess would be needed to replace .3% CG? I actually use both…. CG at .25% (with Hexanediol also at .25%) and my Propanediol levels typically run at the 1.5-2% range.
For the most part I am using Propanediol as a glycerol reducer.
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Can’t help with that part of the world…. but in my part…I also sometimes have trouble finding it…due to the vast number of synonyms it hides behind. Try searching some of these names…and maybe you will find it hiding close by.
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Country you live in please.
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GeorgeBenson said:@Graillotion so what you’re saying is… God forbid my cat accidentally knocks over a bag of Montanov 202 into a jug of oil when I’m not looking…I may have the next innovative face cream invention?!?
Bingo…if your business model is… only list the ingredients people want to see…. you are well on your way.
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Squinny said:Just been looking into for fun and found out it is also has a trade name Leucidal® Liquid SF and states it is the newest of the natural, plant-based preservatives from Active Micro Technologies. Active Micro Technologies combines the current trends for alternative preservative systems with peptide technology. enzyme and it can help to protect the skin against environmental aggressors.
Not sure you’ll find many takers on this site….that it qualifies as a preservative.
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There is a well-known company that sells ferments in the industry…that seems to keep getting extra ingredients splashed into their products that fail to make their label. So, if that is your business model…why not toss in an emulsifier….you should see the other junk they throw in.
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Maybe not a complete inci…as they list numerous ingredients in the marketing portion.
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Yes…. YOU will be the one getting sued…if any suing is going to happen. Lawyers will list all possible entities they think they can get $$$ from, but YOU will be the target. Bottom line…make sure YOUR insurance is in order. (And as mentioned, if you are going to sub out work, you will want to make sure they are insured as well.)
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Pharma said:EDTA becomes increasingly less soluble at low pH (and vice versa); GLDA’s solubility is less pH sensitive. However, you use it at a low concentration and the main issue you’ll see is the slow speed at which they dissolve (you’re unlikely hitting solubility limits). To speed up dissolution, use a smaller amount of water with a higher pH to make a concentrated stock solution.
GLDA sold by the USA re-packers is almost always coming in a liquid solution, so for the small timers…GLDA…is NO SWEAT.
TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) | MakingCosmetics
Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate - Buy Bulk | Essential Wholesale
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grapefruit22 said:@Graillotion
By the seller you mean the distributor? No, I meant technical people working directly in the manufacturer’s company. Sometimes when I’m not sure what pH I can use, they often send me additional documents, even with photos, to show any changes that may occur over time, or the results of stability tests at elevated temperature, so that’s why I’m pretty sure that they are really testing the pH range of their ingredients.By seller…I mean…re-packer. I am familiar with where George is getting ingredients from….so he needed that information. What he is reading….is don’t use Niacinamide below a pH of 6 (mommy blogger lore disseminated by the re-packer). Something he needs to totally ignore.
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Perry said:@MarkBroussard - Rolling dermal undulations?
Also…ROFLMAO!
How long have you been waiting to use that one?
But yes…feet, folds, intimates…and even ‘old people’ smell (and pits of course).
And yes….there is a whole field of….additional smells… and I included an active for each type…diabetic foot smells…folds…pits…and old people. Luckily, I had an expert whispering in my ear…all those secrets.
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Oh…and this is an ‘all over’ deo (use anywhere). I have seen some of the major Indie brands really get ‘torn into’…when they mention private areas.
What is some elegant language for that concept?
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MarkBroussard said:You could call it “Natural Actives Deodorant” … the highlight the natural active deodorizing ingredients.
That is what was spinning around in my head….but you nailed the wording! Thank You.
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grapefruit22 said:@Graillotion
It’s not that bad. Maybe you can try with “formula based on ingredients of natural origin” or “over 90% ingredients of natural origin”. This is your deo? I like the packaging.Yes…that is my picture. And the type of packaging that will be used.
The basic concept of a cream deo is as follows:
I have never ever been able to use stick deos, due to irritation of the stick building components. So, this is the first ever product I have built with myself as the target market.
The second premise is… We make/buy crazy expensive and elegant creams for our faces….and then abuse our pits with SH%T. So, I have taken the face cream concept…and built a pit cream. Has all the ‘claim’ ingredients of a face cream, the elegance….but a very functional deo. I had the best of the best on my team in this regard.
They know who they are! -
grapefruit22 said:@Graillotion
How much D5 do you have in the product?
7%
Because it is a cream that goes on ‘wet’, that is what it took to get an acceptable dry down time.
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grapefruit22 said:@GeorgeBenson
I trust the manufacturers when it comes to pH range,Please understand the differentiation of mfg….and seller.
NEVER trust the seller!!!
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MarkBroussard said:@Graillotion
You can see that the order of the peaks is in ascending order based on the Retention Time (RT). RT is the amount of time elapsed from the injection of the sample in the GC to the appearance of the peak correlating to that particular component on the chromatogram.
Thank you, Mark, I knew there was some type of order. That makes sense.
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I am no expert…but I use something like a cross linked polymer towards this end:
INCI: Dimethicone (and) Dimethicone/Vinyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer
Not sure if it works…. just don’t get syneresis, however I put it in at the inception of the formula…so never tested it without. Other can chime in…if this is a viable option. -
@helenhelen have you looked at Pickering emulsions? Seems like if your skin does not like emulsifiers…this might be a good one to take a look at?!
For those that have made Pickering emulsions….they appear on paper, and a brief read…to be easy to make unstable…see next comment from…hehehe… Wiki:
Properties such as hydrophobicity, shape, and size of the particle, and the electrolyte concentration of the continuous phase can have an effect on the stability of the emulsion. The particle’s contact angle to the surface of the droplet is a characteristic of the hydrophobicity particle. If the contact angle of the particle to the interface is low, the particle will be mostly wetted by the droplet and therefore will not be likely to prevent the coalescence of the droplets. Particles that are partially hydrophobic (i.e. contact angle of approximately 90°) are better stabilizers because they are partially wettable by both liquids and therefore bind better to the surface of the droplets.
Are Pickering emulsions….a viable option for the intermediate novice? -
I also use PE 9010 + some other things and have never had issue with yeast/mold….yet always have that nagging feeling I should add something for y/m. If Sodium Benzoate is a possible irritant….is there another option…that just brings the y/m…but doesn’t bring any irritation to the table? Just looking for the best possible y/m protection…without possible irritation….(and open to synthetics). I always formulate in the range of 4.4-5.2.
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Bingo on the above… pH and niacinamide is the perfect example of mommy blogger lore….repeated and Repeated and REPEATED….SO MUSH SO, that some of the repackers (which are sometimes started by mommy bloggers) will repeat the lore. They are 100% cut and paste on their descriptions. NO RESEARCH!
So a long time ago…a mommy blogger read the above described paper….was not able to understand it….wrote an incorrect blog…that one bloggers misunderstanding of basic information has become the Bible for the bloggers… cut and paste, Cut AND Paste, CUT AND PASTE….Is that not the saddest thing you have read all week?
I formulate at 3 different pH’s (based on product type), 4.4 and 4.8 and 5.2. All products use niacinamide.