[Graillotion]

I doubt you will find much luck in what you are looking for on this site, as you have mistakenly tangled with one of the most brilliant PhD’s you’ll ever come across (a true PhD among PhD’s).  Sometimes the ignorant mistakes brilliance for something else.

Good Luck.

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I saw that study, probably on the same site you saw it.  I ran out of time…or I was gonna post part of that as a ‘comedy piece’.

Someone is selling 20% Algae and 80% glycerin, as a premium humectant….but it scores about 20% lower than just glycerin.  Made me giggle all day. 

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To help you understand Gordof’s explanation…. ALL formula discussions are done in Celsius (so you really through him for a loop with the F reference), and weights in metric. 

Perry does offer some formulating courses. 

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samsal said:

Graillotion said:

Don’t know the answer to your question…but you’re going to need a real preservative.  Even with the unlisted (adulterations) ingredients that company uses, those products are WEAK.

What would be considered a “real” preservative?

“Real” preservatives are ones that work.    Here is a beginning link:  The best cosmetic preservatives - Chemists Corner

There are many additional tools available on this site if you search.

Happy formulating. 

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Don’t know the answer to your question…but you’re going to need a real preservative.  Even with the unlisted (adulterations) ingredients that company uses, those products are WEAK.

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evchem2 said:

What phase are you adding the zinc oxide to- water or oil?  below pH 6 zinc oxide will start dissolving and you will have Zn ions in solution or new complexes which causes some formulation instability

Off topic….as I am looking at Zn options (deo) ….. would this same aspect be true with Zinc Citrate?  (Emulsified cream… with pH of 4.4.) 

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helenhelen said:

Also try with the Montanov 202 in the oil phase rather than water phase.

Just curious…why this recommendation?  Do you find a haptic difference?  I have mostly used it in the water phase.

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Mfg directions for M 202 is 85 C.  (Do not force cool these emulsifiers)

As Pharma said, too much shear…can cause issues.  

I use M 202, and never more than 2 min shear, while HOT.

Many products take 48 hours to mature.  Do not evaluate until that point.

(I think you did not melt your M 202.  Taking it to 85C…I think you’ll get a different result.

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MarkBroussard said:

@Graillotion

You have to be careful with repackers such as Making Cosmetics as they often change the order of the ingrdients in listing the INCI.  I am assuming this may be a requirement of the manufacturer, but who knows.

Your best bet is to contact Koster Keunen directly and ask for a compositional breakdown … it may not be any more illuminating than what you got from MC, but at least it will be directly from the source.

I was aware that many times repackers are not allowed to use the real name of the product, but changing the INCI order?  If above 1%…that has an ‘illegal’ vibe?   

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ggpetrov said:

Graillotion said:

ggpetrov said:

Abdullah said:

ggpetrov said:

I’ve just looked at my worksheet. 2% Softfeel PS +

What is the INCI on Softfeel PS.  I could not find that on ULP.

http://dir.gcimagazine.com/detail/inci.html?id=Polyglyceryl-3+Stearate

According to this site, there are two emulsifiers with this name. The first one is made from Kinetik Technologies, and the second one from Evonik. I guess that the one from the Dragonspice store is the Evonik’s one, because they sell a lot of Evonik’s products.

Got it!  Just straight up PG-3 stearate.

BTW….the one I linked….was pretty interesting.   (But not an emulsifier.)

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I found a Cetiol Softfeel (without the PS)…with INCI of: 

C12-18 Alkanoyl Glycerin/Sebacic Acid Copolymer

Is this the one?

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ggpetrov said:

Abdullah said:

ggpetrov said:

I’ve just looked at my worksheet. 2% Softfeel PS +

What is the INCI on Softfeel PS.  I could not find that on ULP.

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I suppose with rudimentary ‘Google’ skills…I can answer that question for myself…and possibly for others:

For beginners like myself….

“The vapor pressure of a liquid is the point at which equilibrium pressure is reached, in a closed container, between molecules leaving the liquid and going into the gaseous phase and molecules leaving the gaseous phase and entering the liquid phase. Note the mention of a “closed container”. In an open container the molecules in the gaseous phase will just fly off and an equilibrium would not be reached, as many fewer gaseous molecules would be re-entering the liquid phase. Also note that at equilibrium the movement of molecules between liquid and gas does not stop, but the number of molecules in the gaseous phase stays the same—there is always movement between phases. So, at equilibrium there is a certain concentration of molecules in the gaseous phase; the pressure the gas is exerting is the vapor pressure. As for vapor pressure being higher at higher temperatures, when the temperature of a liquid is raised, the added energy in the liquid gives the molecules more energy and they have greater ability to escape the liquid phase and go into the gaseous phase.”

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Bill_Toge said:

the boiling point of D5 is 210 °C, and at room temperature, its vapour pressure is about 1/5000th of atmospheric, considerably less than that of water

I am curious…. what is the number for water.  Always wanted to make that comparison in my head.

[Graillotion]

Welcome to the world of HEC.   

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Anca_Formulator said:

@Graillotion THANK YOU! That is a life saver! I’m in the US, but I can order it.

What homogenizer do you use? Or stirrer?

Same homogenizer as you….and various sized electric ice cream makers as stirrers.   I do not make batches of the size you discussed.

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Not sure where you are located…but the sister brand with Dynamic (EU based)….sells the stand.

Fixed emulsifier homogenizer Misceo 250F (misceo-cosmetics.com)

It will fit your MiniPro.

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ketchito said:

@Graillotion Because everybody cannot rule the world (sorry Tears for fears, for the terrible joke ????). 

I am EXACTLY the right age…to appreciate your comment!  

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Pharma said:

The C16/18 blend has unique properties (probably the reason why it’s so abundant in nature) which makes it (until proven differently) the most stable and versatile of all. Besides, it’s the oldest one, has the most experience/proven formulations and longest tradition, it’s now also the one where science found proof for its greatness, and then there’s good old $: best availability, broadest choice of producers, biggest production plants, easiest synthesis and so on and so forth.

Would you envision…any synergy with combining C16/18 with some C22?  Or is that just watering things down into undetectable nuances?  Too many ingredients in the soup?

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MarkBroussard said:

@Graillotion

Are those really your legs and feet?

Absolutely NOT.  Mine are much nicer…and much more ‘manly’.  Found that in my FB feed….and couldn’t resist….posting. 🙂

The only pic I could find….that shows some leg.  🙂

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mikeylamar said:

Can anyone comment on the difference in feel when compared to isopropyl myristate.

Squinny mentions that she includes 2% cyclomethicone in her formulas. How much IPM and cyclomethicone is usually added in a formula. I’m thinking about adding 5-10% but I’m not sure if that’s too much.

I use both D5 and IPM together in many formulas.  IPM…I pretty much use a standard procedure of 2%.  (But I use a ton of Isoamyl laurate.)

D5…now that is a whole nother beast.  Also, I do not consider them really even similar, or doing the same thing.  D5 is too unique to lump it in with non-volatile emollients.  You have to experiment…but 2-10% ranges are not uncommon.  Typically where I want just a subtle bump of haptics…2-3% will suffice.  Something that you want rapid drying (sensory)…(for me this was an emulsified deo cream)…the 7-10% range was more appropriate.  BTW…. D5 should also help with soaping.

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Never mind…. I discovered this product can only be used cold process, and I am too in love with my meltable ingredients.

I will just send it to Pharma, and he can play with it.  

Aloha…

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Abdullah said:

 

In my opinion top products are made by top chemists in the industry.

 Top chemists…are often hamstrung by costing chemists.   

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MarkBroussard said:

@Adamnfineman

Colloidal Oatmeal 1%

Allantoin, Butyrospermum Parkii, (Shea) Butter, Caprylic/Capric, Triglyceride, Ceteth-2, Ceteth-20, Cetearyl Alcohol, Dimethicone, Niacinamide, Panthenol, Phenoxyethanaol, Ethylhexylglycerine, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, Water

Interesting choice of preservative (9010) for an eczema product, as you have discussed your research in regard to the irritation of many of the preservative systems to compromised skin.