Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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Yes…. YOU will be the one getting sued…if any suing is going to happen. Lawyers will list all possible entities they think they can get $$$ from, but YOU will be the target. Bottom line…make sure YOUR insurance is in order. (And as mentioned, if you are going to sub out work, you will want to make sure they are insured as well.)
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Pharma said:EDTA becomes increasingly less soluble at low pH (and vice versa); GLDA’s solubility is less pH sensitive. However, you use it at a low concentration and the main issue you’ll see is the slow speed at which they dissolve (you’re unlikely hitting solubility limits). To speed up dissolution, use a smaller amount of water with a higher pH to make a concentrated stock solution.
GLDA sold by the USA re-packers is almost always coming in a liquid solution, so for the small timers…GLDA…is NO SWEAT.
TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) | MakingCosmetics
Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate - Buy Bulk | Essential Wholesale
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grapefruit22 said:@Graillotion
By the seller you mean the distributor? No, I meant technical people working directly in the manufacturer’s company. Sometimes when I’m not sure what pH I can use, they often send me additional documents, even with photos, to show any changes that may occur over time, or the results of stability tests at elevated temperature, so that’s why I’m pretty sure that they are really testing the pH range of their ingredients.By seller…I mean…re-packer. I am familiar with where George is getting ingredients from….so he needed that information. What he is reading….is don’t use Niacinamide below a pH of 6 (mommy blogger lore disseminated by the re-packer). Something he needs to totally ignore.
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Perry said:@MarkBroussard - Rolling dermal undulations?
Also…ROFLMAO!
How long have you been waiting to use that one?
But yes…feet, folds, intimates…and even ‘old people’ smell (and pits of course).
And yes….there is a whole field of….additional smells… and I included an active for each type…diabetic foot smells…folds…pits…and old people. Luckily, I had an expert whispering in my ear…all those secrets.
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Oh…and this is an ‘all over’ deo (use anywhere). I have seen some of the major Indie brands really get ‘torn into’…when they mention private areas.
What is some elegant language for that concept?
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MarkBroussard said:You could call it “Natural Actives Deodorant” … the highlight the natural active deodorizing ingredients.
That is what was spinning around in my head….but you nailed the wording! Thank You.
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grapefruit22 said:@Graillotion
It’s not that bad. Maybe you can try with “formula based on ingredients of natural origin” or “over 90% ingredients of natural origin”. This is your deo? I like the packaging.Yes…that is my picture. And the type of packaging that will be used.
The basic concept of a cream deo is as follows:
I have never ever been able to use stick deos, due to irritation of the stick building components. So, this is the first ever product I have built with myself as the target market.
The second premise is… We make/buy crazy expensive and elegant creams for our faces….and then abuse our pits with SH%T. So, I have taken the face cream concept…and built a pit cream. Has all the ‘claim’ ingredients of a face cream, the elegance….but a very functional deo. I had the best of the best on my team in this regard.
They know who they are! -
grapefruit22 said:@Graillotion
How much D5 do you have in the product?
7%
Because it is a cream that goes on ‘wet’, that is what it took to get an acceptable dry down time.
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grapefruit22 said:@GeorgeBenson
I trust the manufacturers when it comes to pH range,Please understand the differentiation of mfg….and seller.
NEVER trust the seller!!!
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MarkBroussard said:@Graillotion
You can see that the order of the peaks is in ascending order based on the Retention Time (RT). RT is the amount of time elapsed from the injection of the sample in the GC to the appearance of the peak correlating to that particular component on the chromatogram.
Thank you, Mark, I knew there was some type of order. That makes sense.
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I am no expert…but I use something like a cross linked polymer towards this end:
INCI: Dimethicone (and) Dimethicone/Vinyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer
Not sure if it works…. just don’t get syneresis, however I put it in at the inception of the formula…so never tested it without. Other can chime in…if this is a viable option. -
@helenhelen have you looked at Pickering emulsions? Seems like if your skin does not like emulsifiers…this might be a good one to take a look at?!
For those that have made Pickering emulsions….they appear on paper, and a brief read…to be easy to make unstable…see next comment from…hehehe… Wiki:
Properties such as hydrophobicity, shape, and size of the particle, and the electrolyte concentration of the continuous phase can have an effect on the stability of the emulsion. The particle’s contact angle to the surface of the droplet is a characteristic of the hydrophobicity particle. If the contact angle of the particle to the interface is low, the particle will be mostly wetted by the droplet and therefore will not be likely to prevent the coalescence of the droplets. Particles that are partially hydrophobic (i.e. contact angle of approximately 90°) are better stabilizers because they are partially wettable by both liquids and therefore bind better to the surface of the droplets.
Are Pickering emulsions….a viable option for the intermediate novice? -
I also use PE 9010 + some other things and have never had issue with yeast/mold….yet always have that nagging feeling I should add something for y/m. If Sodium Benzoate is a possible irritant….is there another option…that just brings the y/m…but doesn’t bring any irritation to the table? Just looking for the best possible y/m protection…without possible irritation….(and open to synthetics). I always formulate in the range of 4.4-5.2.
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Bingo on the above… pH and niacinamide is the perfect example of mommy blogger lore….repeated and Repeated and REPEATED….SO MUSH SO, that some of the repackers (which are sometimes started by mommy bloggers) will repeat the lore. They are 100% cut and paste on their descriptions. NO RESEARCH!
So a long time ago…a mommy blogger read the above described paper….was not able to understand it….wrote an incorrect blog…that one bloggers misunderstanding of basic information has become the Bible for the bloggers… cut and paste, Cut AND Paste, CUT AND PASTE….Is that not the saddest thing you have read all week?
I formulate at 3 different pH’s (based on product type), 4.4 and 4.8 and 5.2. All products use niacinamide.
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Just guessing…but they probably purchased it that way from a supplier. So came as a blend. And the supplier led them to believe the radish root was preserving it (the blend)?
Are there any other ingredients that are common is all the formulas?
Just a guess.
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Confused…
Is that two separate pairings….
or
You will use all 4 items together?
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Squinny said:Thanks very much for that Mark appreciate your help and time and the info on where to source the Deo active - I will look into. Have to see what exchange rates are and shipping costs though which is why I tend to buy mostly in Australia (where I am). The Ethanol I can buy here is this : Alcohol, Aqua (Water) , 0.25% Tertiary Butanol [Denaturant: To conform with Australian Taxation Office - Excise requirements] - would that be ok to use?
That Evonic add in….is called dermosoft decalact deo.
It is now sold in the US, at Formulators sample shop.
Just go to the liquor store, and ask for Everclear….or a generic version of it.
dermosoft® decalact deo MB | Evonik Dr. Straetmans GmbH (dr-straetmans.de)
Note: The TEC level in there is microscopic, not the levels we have preciously discussed.
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I’ll probably be redundant with some of the above comments…but here goes.
Why does it lack emollience? It lacks emollients. Good emollients have names like isoamyl laurate, laurel laurate, IPM, etc…. I don’t see those in your formula. There are secondary ones that help… like maybe cetyl palmitate etc.
What does it not fully moisturize? You only have glycerol working towards that end. Not all on this forum will agree, but I have found a team of humectants works much better than a single member. If cost is the only measure of success, then you are on the right path. So, I would certainly look at adding some team members like propanediol, betaine, urea (especially), sodium lactate, sodium PCA, or many other possible choices. Every humectant works in a slightly different manner and excels at different humidity levels. If you have not researched that to the nth degree and determined that only glycerol works in your climate with your skin…then add to the team.
I can’t imagine the words eczema and dimethicone not being in the same sentence…where is yours?
I like colloidal oatmeal…just make sure your preservative is the best of the best….cuz every bug in the world likes that stuff.
And OMG…knock the formula down to 150 grams, until you have it nailed.
I get the impression you think oils are magical? They lubricate (NOT the same as moisturize) the skin, and not a whole lot more. The rest of the build is actually the important aspects. Humectants and barrier should be more the focus.
If you want to know if the Niacinamide irritates….just mix some in water…and apply to the same select spot for a few days….and you’ll have your answer.
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Opti plus is very pH sensitive (to get the full benefit). (see the last word in the INCI)
You did NOT mention your pH….which would be critical.
Please also list all other ‘hurdle’ ingredients in the formula.
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ggpetrov said:Also I’d like to mention that i’ve read somewhere that the high shear mixing / homogenisation have a negative impact to the Xanthan gum gels.Now I’d like to ask a question about the Carbomers and their high-shear stress resistance. According to this publication: https://realizebeauty.wordpress.com/2022/04/04/carbomer-chemistry-high-speed-mixing-homogenising/There is a serious risk of damaging of the polymer chains. This damage manifests as a non-recoverable loss of viscosity – so the end gel or product is thinner than it otherwise could be.As far as i understand this is applicable only for the pre neutralized carbomers and/or those who doesn’t need a neutralisation. Because once the polymer has create it’s own chains, every high shear force will have a negative impact on it.And still, when I incorporate the sodium carbomer in my lotions at 40 degrees, can I use my homogeniser for a couple of seconds to spread the carbomer more evenly, off course at the lowest speed?
Just do as someone mentioned above….test it.
Here is what I do…. strip away the formula…it will only confuse you.
Take the correct amount of water the formula would have….and the correct amount of gum/carbomer/polymeric…whatever you want to test. And mix these two sole ingredients. Hit with as much shear as you think you will use, were you to make the entire formula.
You have your answer. And I think you will find the result will be as @chemicalmatt has suggested…. no problem. It always has been for me.
Sometimes you’ll find the brilliance in simplicity.
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Here is the 2nd Google listing:
Emulsifiers with HLB Values (theherbarie.com)
Oh sorry…I forgot I don’t use Google. I use ‘Bing’.
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Absolutely the first google entry it listed. What Google are you using?
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PM = Private message.
At the top of the screen…there is a menu bar… Click on ‘Inbox’ and you can message people in the forum directly.
Aloha.
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Squinny said:Hi Graillotion so do you have a formula /list of ingredients you recommend? And would like a formula that isnt irritating but effective at preventing odor to begin with. What is the ideal pH then for underarm use deo to stop odor and not be irritating? I want a spray not cream or stick if possible? I am happy to make an emulsion and more like a lotion if that works better. I am only making for my own use ( for fun with benefits!). Cheers
When I make deo, I target 4.4. However, my advisors have suggested I can go much lower. However, when down around 3.8…. I did get an occasional tester that felt irritation. At 4.4, the bugs are hating life, and I get no irritation.
You can send me a pm, regarding potential ingredients.