Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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Ghita37 said:@Graillotion Your tone of voice cracked me up!!! I dont intend to use EO on my products at all as i want no one to complain that my product caused allergy to them.Oh thats a great idea you gave here; i didnt know we could have a EO Free badge? How do you apply for the badge and how much does it cost?That is marketing jargon…. You just print it on your label/ write it in your story. Give yourself…as many badges…as you have room.
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At the allowable rate…most if not all…will have minimal, if not any effect. The biggest issue…is probably the potential allergens that you bring to a product…by introducing 150 new chemicals to a product. (On average….the EO’s will bring about 150 chemicals…in their chemical make-up.)
Most people fail to realize that EO’s are a MASSIVE CHEMICAL SOUP!
Just take a look at a quickie example….and ask yourself….are you familiar with all these chemicals you want to introduce? How many are allergens? Are some of them even unsafe?
GC_Lavender(Bulgaria)EssentialOil.pdf (newdirectionsaromatics.com)
Don’t get me wrong…you can use them for fragrance and marketing….the mommy bloggers will eat them up with a spoon.
Just be aware of the legitimate drawbacks. Some savvy marketers are now using an ‘EO Free’ badge, and am thinking of using it myself. (I think the age of ignorance is winding down….or is it…. A sucker is born every minute? I get confused.) -
GeorgeBenson said:@jemolian see above… i dont know either, because it is not MY reasoning, i am just following orders.
With those orders….you should easily be able to kill your soaping with caprylyl methicone. It is NOT dimethicone.
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PhilGeis said:@Graillotion
Consumer touches? Can you explain?
Have you seen contamination on inner package surfaces?Consumer extracts product with finger.
No…But I already use PEA in the product…and jump through all the preservation hoops…plus some extra ones.
Product below…. finger extraction of product.
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PhilGeis said:O-Cymen-5-ol vapor pressure is a bit < PEA’s. Don’t know if either would be effective for headspace from cosmetic matrix
Are you sure you need headspace preservation?I do have two products in jars that consumer touches….so…. Yes!
(Especially since I don’t use P’s and F’s.) -
On that paper I linked….jump down to page 24….for the cosmetic section. But the whole thing is a good read.
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Something I found sitting on my desktop…. easy leisure reading.
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Actually…I would put them both in the category of skin soothers, and protectents. Betaine being the better humectant of the two.
Absolutely love them….and use them in most everything….but you still need some support from your traditional humectents.
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A lot of people globally get their material from a Thai site. They ship DHL…and can pretty much hit any spot on the globe in 5-7 days.
They have a massive selection. Sometime things are a little hard to find….as they might list all their emollients under the name: ‘LipidSoft _____’ But once you learn their idiosyncrasies, nothing but fun.
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Abdullah said:PG10S @1% emulsifier in stability or haptic because they are both stable and i am not good at noticing every haptic differences but i didn’t like it because it is a one big chunk emulsifier and ingredients like this take a lot of time and are very difficult to melt specially in large production batches.
This is a picture of how the sample i had received looks.
I think that is reason enough…to get it from the Thai place… It looks a little more manageable!
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Anything you think you can get away with….right up to the point they sue you.
Sorry… I don’t participate in that nonsense. But….I also don’t succeed well in marketing either.
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GeorgeBenson said:I will definitely give this a try, thanks.
In this scenario would you add TEC to heated oil phase or during cool down?
You can heat it (in oil) ….no sweat.
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Ghita37 said:@Graillotion thanks dear/Can i use pure vaseline on my face?
Yes….but I personally…would not enjoy that….and your pillow might not either.
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@GeorgeBenson take a look at this old thread:
TEC as an antisoaping device…. — Cosmetic Science Talk (chemistscorner.com)
And the comment from the brilliant Swiss mind.
I would suggest…a 2-3% try. Replace an emollient of your choice…with this…but keep some of what you were replacing….to work towards the cascade.
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Building a cascade of emollients….will help with soaping.
Consumers are not that bright…. Could you use caprylyl methicone….which is incredible against soaping….without them knowing it was a ‘cone’?
Try a couple of percent of TEC in the next version. It is a nice emollient…and many swear it reduces soaping.
You might read this old thread…and see if you can glean any ideas….
Thinking outside the box on soaping. — Cosmetic Science Talk (chemistscorner.com)
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GeorgeBenson said:Yes unfortunately it must be PEG-free and dimethicone free, believe me i wish i could use 165 my life would so much easier.
I will try your suggested combo with 68. what flavor am i adding when i add GMS “to taste”? or do you just mean for thickening?
I will absolutely include that emollient on my next thai order.
thanks!
Yes….to taste…is like salt..hehehe… Add GMS till you get the viscosity you want.
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Ghita37 said:Hello Perry thanks a lot for your reply. Again articles can be so misleading whereby you read incorrect information/I always thought that oils are occlusive because this is what articles say.
I have dry skin but using Petrolatum like vaseline makes my skin shiny and i dont like that effect.@Graillotion THANKS a lot dear for your reply/ I read a lot about emulsions and even about the latest emulsion technologies and read about W/O and O/W emultions./Yes emulsion means when you mix two immiscible subtances like oil and vinegar for instance or oil and water so you need a third party to bring them trogether/For instance mayonaise is an emulsifier.
Indeed i sometimes put shea butter on my face and the thing is that on the cheeks it feels moisturised but on the chin it gets dry.i have dry skin overall/ Shall i use everynight before sleep vaseline on my face after cleansing? It just feel weird to apply vaseline;; lolWhat I think Perry would recommend…is not a 100% pure petrolatum regiment….(albeit it would not hurt)… But using it as a component (cornerstone) of a moisturizing product.
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Hehehe….I don’t see any ‘165’ on there….is PEG free a requirement?
I am guessing you will like the M 68 with just a kiss of SSG…(supporting role…and GSC could also be used)… some cetyl alcohol (since I know what you like)…Some Aristo AVC…(assuming no conflicts). And finish with GMS to taste.
A new emollient (to me) I have come across…that has really impressed me (can get at Thai Place)…has been Dicaprylyl Carbonate:
LipidSoftTM Dry (Dicaprylyl Carbonate) (myskinrecipes.com)
Talk about a stunning after feel….most leave a minimal afterfeel…this one…is in a league of its own.
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PhilGeis said:Phenyl ethyl is not so good vs. Gram positives. For headspace - IF it volatilizes from your product at level - it might inhibit Gram neg’s and fungi.
https://microbeonline.com/phenylethyl-alcohol-agar-pea-principle-composition-and-preparation/
What do you think of O-Cymen-5-ol as strictly a head space preservative (add-on)…. I guess in comparison to PEA? @PhilGeis I always have a big pile of that on hand.
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@Margaret I would be remiss to not say…. Phenyl ethyl alcohol…has a pronounced ‘rose’ scent.
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As Perry said…Oil and water don’t mix. Study the word ’emulsion’, and you’ll begin to understand the concept. When the Mommy blogger sites discuss oil as holding in moisture…they mean it has mild occlusive properties, but not nearly as effective as something like Perry mentioned….Petrolatum, which is king. You can create moderate levels of occlusiveness with other ingredients…it just takes far more skill and expense.
If you ask the people that worship oils….if they are honest…they will tell you…. You can grease your skin with Shea butter…and still feel dry underneath…they just can’t grasp reality of a proper construction of a moisturizing product. Study the fundamentals of a moisturizer…and what it is. Of course you will discover that an occlusive member is required for any kind of duration.Good Luck.
You might consider this….before you move on:
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Abdullah said:I didn’t like it just because PG6DS works better alone or with GMS.
Define that please….. ‘works better‘? Is that a reference to better haptics….or a reference to stability?
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Margaret said:O.K. thanks all you fine people!
I had NOT realized this Tristat & Optiphen are different combinations of phenoxyethanol & capryly glycol.
I have been using the phenoxyethanol with the Germall + only the last 1 1/2 years approx. because it’s supposed to be slightly volatile from what I read on a real cosmetic chemist’s blog/web-site, so I figured I’d add that to the CREAM since fingers go into the product.
I use sodium phytate at 0.3%. Once that’s gone I’ll go back to the EDTA at 0.2%.
….Not different combinations….the EXACT same combo.
I think you have read some terms…and mistaken some similar sounding terms.
What you want on the glycol…is ‘Pentylene’ glycol.
Pentylene Glycol (formulatorsampleshop.com)
What you want as the head space preservative….is: ‘Phenethyl’ alcohol, not Phenoxy!
Perfumers Apprentice - Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol
(Hehehehe….sure sounds like you were trying to follow my protocols…I have posted on other pages.
)And Yes….your current system was rather redundant, and did not achieve you desired effect. Switching to Phenyl Ethyl…will also be redundant, but will give you the desired ‘head space’ result you are looking for.
Aloha.
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Margaret said:There is a new preservative available to the DIYer called TRISTAT PC 90.
It is 90% phenoxyethanol & 10% capryly glycolThis is new?
It was called Optiphen….forever. Nothing like dusting off a classic, and putting a new bow on it. (I guess that is what marketing is!).3% to .3%…would not be an identical match…due to the Optiphen being at a 90% ratio of phenoxy.
FYI….carbon chain length of PG…is pretty short… I will speculate… 2% of Pentylene glycol will do as good a job….and feel better.
The effectiveness increase with carbon chain length. -
Pharma said:The Thai place has it, along with PG-10 isostearate and oleate if you want a liquid version and a bunch of other PG-10 esters too.Can’t remember having them seen there last time I placed an order…I suppose, of all the polyglyceryl esters, the 10 comes closest to 165?
Yes…I’ve had it in my cart…and dumped it twice…due to high cost.
I think only one company mfg’s it….so they can ask…whatever they want.