Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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about any humectant will be better than HA.
The list is long…and I guess would normally be based on availability:
Glycerin
Sodium PCA
Sodium Lactate
1,3 Propanediol
Urea
L-Proline
Xylitol
Polyglutamic acid
Acetamidoethoxyethanol
Most suppliers…will designate an entire category to humectants….there are many.
Good luck.
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I would have to assume…you have applied all individual ingredients by themselves on your skin….to make sure you do not have an allergy?
So try these by themselves on your face:
Glycerin
Versagel
shea butter
Mac Nut oil
Then mix the following into water at the correct ratio…. Water + PCA + TocoAcetate
See if any if any these create a response.
If not …. consider swapping the emulsifier package.
This is kind of a ‘topical knockout experiment’.
Aloha.
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I did not see a mention of pH. You can certainly get some mileage out of a decent pH.
Have you considered subbing pentylene glycol for the propylene (I know …. higher cost). With that longer carbon chain length… it might point things in the right direction.
If I were having Y/M/F issues…I probably wouldn’t take the approach of adding more LGP… but hitting it from a different angle….adding a different YMF agent.
Good luck.
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This is a cosmetic site. I believe you are looking for a cheese or yogurt site.
Good luck.
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As I have already mentioned…and industry has demonstrated….it is all about filtering. You just need to select the media. DE has been used for eons.
How to Remove Dark Color from Ethanol Extracts - extraktLAB
But I am sure you are already familiar with these basic concepts.
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You could try distilling it…or filtering through a finer media.
I would enjoy reading the scientific, peer review material on the extract. Please link if you can.
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As it is unlikely the extract is doing anything other than ‘claim’, just dilute it until you achieve the desired outcome.
Good Luck.
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The product you have is called: ROVISOME Retinol Moist Pro from Evonik. You might try and dig deeper on it….via the mfg, Evonik.
Their presentation on ULP was pretty vague as well…but ONLY mentioned using it in emulsions.
When you see an ingredient like Polysorbate 20 in a mix like that….that is ONLY for solubilize the product within itself….not into future mixes.
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A lot of time….beginners will find this chart from Jane as a useful tool:
Which natural preservative is best - we review over 20 - (makingskincare.com)
If you think….just adding a preservative….and you are good…. then we probably can’t help. Preservation is a system. ALL preservatives can fail with poor GMP and too much bug food. There is no (reasonable) system (to my knowledge) that cannot fail.
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Just some basic points on hurdle tech:
Keep bug food to a minimum.
Follow GMP practices.
Select packaging that minimizes customer touching.
If possible formulate the pH to 4.6-4.8 range.
Add some glycols with a carbon chain length of 5 or more….like pentylene glycol (not propylene) or hexanediol.
Add 2% of 1,3 Propanediol as part of your humectant package.
Use a chelate. If EDTA does not fit your ethos…then use: GLDA aka: TSGD aka: Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate).
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Here is a good webinar…with Dr Phil Geis, and Perry.
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Even a passing mention of Lucidal shows your unfamiliarity with preservatives.
Since there is no definition of ‘natural’ in cosmetics…. Why not use a preservation system that works? You would not be any more or less ‘natural’ then you were before….as there is no definition of ‘natural’.
I am always appalled when someone wants to formulate around safety? How is this even a thing?
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Have you tried the formula with betaine?
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For extra points…..any articles that give a description of how different products having the same cas #…would also be helpful. IE… something with different ratio of the same ingredients…having the same cas # but….in reality are somewhat different…due to ratios.
I use a squalane solid wax….that has the same cas # as liquid squalane. Just need a good explanation of how this works.
Aloha.
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I guess the next logical question would be…. How much of C12-15 AB or castor oil would one need to make this whole system function, par excellence? Is 1% going to get it done? Back in my early days…I tried to use castor in emulsions…and felt it destroyed the haptics….at even .5%?
I keep C12-15AB on hand….but I don’t make anhydrous products….and the mommies….don’t keep C12-15AB on hand.
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I’d guess the 1% line a bit higher than that….as allantoin if still above that line, and only a mommy blogger would have a rate of 1% or more. I would probably speculate that the 1% line is at SODIUM CETEARYL SULFATE.
As far as the orgininal question….probably anything with a plant name in it…is not doing much.
Tear it apart like you would anything….categorize what is the emollients, the humectants, the barrier function…preservation…. emulsifier and builders, and then see what is left. That is the uneeded parts.
Aloha.
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The Book:
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You could read Dr Phil (Phillip) Geis’s book….as he is one of the foremost experts on the planet, on the topic (see first comment on your thread….yup…the King himself answered you).
I will see if I can find some videos for you on the topic.
Aloha.
Study this: Hurdle approach or Hurdle technology. Once you learn that…. probably for beginners… Liquid Germal Plus, might be the simplest, easiest to use, straightforward approaches…on top of using hurdle approach.
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Oh @chemicalmatt , the last half of that last sentence…..absolutely classic.
Gonna have to steal that…and use it in my repertoire!
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I knew both…. was just curious….as to the purpose. I assumed…they were trying to avoid listing… EDTA???
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What is the thought process..behind having a slightly hotter water phase?
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I am always so tickled…when someone puts the ‘broad spectrum’ label on something that is anything but…. ‘broad spectrum’. The companies that market these fantastical dreams…really should be prosecuted.
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@PhilGeis …wouldn’t that system be a little weak on Gram - and Y/M/F?
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I understand that. 🙂
Just when formulated say at 40% by a novice…it becomes a bit more than a moisturizer. ????
I was wondering if there was any safety net in place.