[Graillotion]

You get full claim value…at any inclusion rate.

[Graillotion]

What makes you say it has a lot???

Are you privy to the formula?

I only looked at the 1st one…and the HA is below the 1% line….so probably typical use rates.

The marketing is clever enough to discuss 5 types of HA….to throw off your cognitive abilities.

I saw nothing there to claim more than claim levels of HA.

It seems to have the typical humectants that do all the work…and get none of the glory. 😉

[Graillotion]

I just saw they also had Sodium lactate as well…. which will break a polymeric in a heartbeat as well.

Not sure what level company this is…. but I see beginners destroy their polymeric networks all the time…. without ever realizing it (never test against their ingredient panel). So, if they have a low grade chemist….they might not even realize their polymerics is doing nothing. Sometimes we give people more credit for intellect, then they actually have. 😆

[Graillotion]

Clearly the NaPCA is below the 1% line….hence it could easily be .01% and in for just the claim.

Over the years…I have NOT found the value of NaPCA, and when I confer with my peers, they tend to agree with me. (Beyond good claim value…. since it is part of NMF.)

The polymeric is Aristoflex AVC, which is probably one of the most hyper-sensitive polymerics on the market…. so I would assume the inclusion of NaPCA is very very low.

BTW…. you can buy PCA without the Na …. just saying. 😉

Aloha

Just for fun…. make a slurry of Aristoflex AVC, and water….. add drops of NaPCA while stirring….till it loses viscosity. I think it will shock at how quickly the steric hinderance let’s go! 😆

• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Master of Science in Cosmetic Science | UC Online

online.uc.edu

Master of Science in Cosmetic Science

Our Master of Science in Cosmetic Science is globally recognized as one of the oldest cosmetic science graduate programs in the country and offered online.

[Graillotion]

Sorry can’t help, as my skin is a bit more acidic than yours. 😉

TEC is nothing more than an expensive emollient at that pH. 😉 (Remind yourself of what it is….and what it is supposed to do.)

[Graillotion]

not familiar with that last line ingredient…. but I have used Sodium Metabisulfite on occasion, and the scent is not soon forgotten. 😉

Make a small batch of the formula…leaving out the last line….and see if you still have the odor. (Aka: knockout experiment.)

[Graillotion]

Maybe a couple things to look at:

Many natural colorants are pH dependent. You have included an ingredient that will change pH until it is exhaused….meaning you have induced your own pH drift. Remove that and see it if persists.

Many natural colorants will oxidize with time (and not that much is required). Consider antioxidants. Memba, they only work in the phase they are soluble in, so you might need both a water and lipid soluble one.

Consider packaging as well….often light is your enemy in a situation like this.

[Graillotion]

When you see an INCI like this:

That last grouping is typically (all though possible) not added as individual ingredients. As some of the preservatives that get used by the ‘natural’ folk have ended up on the naughty list. I am not an EU expert…but I do believe that part of that listing requirement…is to post them at the end.

[Graillotion]

Easiest way is to reduce tacky inputs. If you are dealing with G… then see if you can sub some of it for 1,3 propanediol, or butylene glycol.

Otherwise, your other option is to ‘out slippery’ the sticky. Use emollients/esters at such propensity, the slippery aspect prevails.

[Graillotion]

I found it on Amazon. There is no barrier to entry on Amazon.

Based on the reviews, I’d probably not use this as a benchmark. 😆

Looks like it comes out of….. India (no comment).

• This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Yes, I would throw out anything with a Geogard preservative! How did you expect to cover Gram negative bacteria?

The poor job that Geogard preservatives do on the other aspects of the formula, are very pH dependent, and you did not even mention pH??? Above a pH of 5.5, the product isn’t doing much on the Gram +, and YMF.

Just because other beginners use poor preservation, does not mean you should follow the herd. Consider the health of your customers, and family.

This link… might be a good place to start, not written by beginners.

Preservative Reviews - (makingskincare.com)

makingskincare.com

Preservative Reviews -

PreservativesAll you need to know!Learn how to preserve effectivelyCommon strategies chemists use to pass preservative testsPreservative free?True or false? Previous Next Free, online skincare formulation course from Chemists Corner, Swiftcraftymonkey and Making Skincare.As a first step to making your own … Continue reading

[Graillotion]

You should understand that very clever language is used to manipulate those without the science backgrounds…. everything down to the worst of the worst….will use meaningless terms like ‘broad spectrum’. I cannot think of two more meaningless words in cosmetics!

I have seen the method that beginners use to select their preservation systems…. They will …. wait for it …. survey other beginners on what to use. Do you see any concerns with that?

[Graillotion]

A little confused with the question…..unless you are being name-brand specific.

Posting your country….is always of value, on Q’s like this.

• This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

I don’t buy ingredients from Amazon….but thought this was funny.

Amazon.com: Artekas Innovation - CAPRYLYL CAPRYLATE/CAPRATE - Liquid - Cosmetic Grade - Emollient - for Homemade Sensative Skin, Body, Face, Baby Care - 3.52 Oz : Beauty & Personal Care

[Graillotion]

How much is enough? 😆 NONE is enough.

Based on the fact that after water they have two industry standard humectants… I’d suspect they went .01% X 5 versions….and came to a rather industry standard .05%. 😉

That is an ingredient…..where less is almost always better. (But an ‘ell of a CLAIM ingredient.)

• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

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[Graillotion]

Response to pH will be directly correlated to the individual. Some can handle higher pH….others cannot. You cannot paint that canvas with a broad brush!

[Graillotion]

Umh…. TEC does not have pH. Typically when ingredients don’t have a measurable pH….they are added to water…and that reading is used. Congratulations !!!! You now know the pH of the water they added. TEC is an ester….the citric is bound…it takes lower pH’s….if you want any of it let go. Any result you got…was likely form other inputs.

Good luck.

[Graillotion]

What I hear you saying is… the knives in this drawer …. are a little sharper than Tom Sawyers friends? 😆

[Graillotion]

With all respect you said:

“The mosquito-repelling is done by an essential oil called Eucalyptus Lemon Scented Gum Oil (Eucalyptus citriodora)”

What your intent with that language was….only you know. How a beginner will read that…we all know…..

• This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Then you already know that Lemon Eucalyptus oil has almost no repelling, other than beyond placebo levels. The essential oil is often mistaken by novices as the same thing as Oil of lemon Eucalyptus, which is it NOT. OLE contains high levels of PMD, which have been proven effective. Lemon Eucalyptus E.O has very negligible amounts of PMD.

You just feed the mommy blogger lore, when you don’t make these distinctions in your post.

[Graillotion]

Back to your original question….let’s call in the expert, Dr Geis…. @PhilGeis Do you see any concerns with heating a preservative containing: Benzyl Alcohol (and) Salicylic Acid (and) Glycerin (and) Sorbic Acid

To a temp of 75C?

PS: Time to buy a pH meter. 😉

• This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Ahh…………..

Yes the iscaguard PEG will help. We don’t work in brand names….just INCI.

So I finally looked it up….and it contains phenoxy….which will get the gram -.

Good luck. (Going forward…..tell us what is in things…. we don’t memorize brand names). 😉

[Graillotion]

The entire line is weak on Gram - , hence why it is mostly relegated to beginners. Granted you can use them as a starting point… and build off of them….but why bother, when it is simply easier to preserve correctly right out of the gate? The link I sent…addressed the additional version you inquired about.

It actually brings a new set of problems….and that is pH drift with the Gluconolactone.

By the way Vit E has no effect on preservation. It is an antioxidant, not a preservative. And worse yet, at the rate you used it….it is a pro-oxidant vs the desired outcome. In cosmetics….it is quite often the case….that more is worse. The E rate that will be sufficient will be .05% - to .2% if you think your product is old and low efficacy (the darker it is…the more oxidized it is).

• This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Graillotion.

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[Graillotion]

Yes, I was aware of how little of those strong anionics they use in those blends. In the past I have used SSG as a co-emulsifier quite often.

As of late….I have fallen in love with SPDMA as my co-emulsifier. 😆 Just had to learn to love HP starch….and I have a new love.

I don’t use Rita M…. was just trying to help out some beginners. In your answer you mention oil content…. since the topic is beginners….we know there is too much oil. But could you extrapolate on that idea?

Aloha, and thank you for your time and input, @ketchito .