[gld010]

Great article Perry. Polymer weight/length has something to do with it, right? 5cst and 500cst Dimethicone will both show up as “Dimethicone” despite performing way different. 

[gld010]

@Bobzchemist
Unfortunately IKA is what we are stuck with, we have IKAs of all sizes including giant ones for production that I’m sure management will be hesitant to replace. What is best for pigment dispersion? I know you are a consultant so feel free to brush the question off if it’s too in depth to count as free advice

[gld010]

Confirmed it’s the TiO2, gonna try the jojoba ester pigments next. 

[gld010]

@Bobzchemist
Okay, I’ll make a batch without TiO2 to check. If it ends up being TiO2 maybe I can order some NJE pigments from Kobo as the client does not want to go back to silane (wants silicone free product, hence vegelight instead of D5).

@Doreen81
Unfortunately anything I do will eventually need to be mirrored by our large scale production crew and I don’t think we have anything like that for large batches  

Thanks guys!

[gld010]

I wanted to add that I tried pre dispersing the pigments in a massive amount of Finsolv and I still got the little speckles. The speckles don’t streak at all so I’m wondering if it *isn’t* the TiO2… though I never got the speckling when using pigments treated with a silane so I hesitate to say it’s anything else in the formula either. I tried a formula without ascorbyl palmitate and it still speckled and I don’t think there’s enough nylon for it to do that.

Most recent formula (rounded percent):
5% cap/cap
5% DC 556
1.5% Tribehenin
6% Ozokerite
1% Ceresin
1% Squalane
1.5% Tridecyl Trimellitate
.75% polyglyceryl-3 beeswax
1% soft jojoba ester
4% hard jojoba ester
2% Cithrol disperser
17% Finsolv (like I said, massive)
0.5% K-82P polyester
10% Vegelight 1214LC
0.5% Nylon-12
0.7% antioxidant
0.1% ascorbyl palmitate
rest is pigments. Supposed to be a concealer stick.

[gld010]

@Doreen81
I see, thanks. Still new at this, still learning. I may have been thinking of another thickener that’s a pain in the butt to hydrate. Not HEC.

[gld010]

@Doreen81 Doesn’t xanthan gum take a lot of time and energy to fully hydrate? Wouldn’t exposing xanthan gum to water only at the point of emulsion make it more difficult to hydrate, or make it take longer?

[gld010]

I once was given a formulation for a “Mediterranean Dry Oil” that was mostly new “natural” silicone replacements plus some argan oil.

This post made me look up some “dry oil” products and in almost all of them there was a volatile (or something that feels like one) right at the top of the list- D5, isododecane, Coco-Caprylate/Caprate. Only one that I looked at was nothing but oil and antioxidant/preservative. So I guess consumers want that dry skinfeel even if the oil itself isn’t technically “dry”. In one of them there was barely any oil at all, it was ethylhexyl palmitate and isohexadecane with jojoba and sesame seed oil in the 1% or less section.

Because of this I think “dry oil” refers to the entire product and not the oil itself because people are expecting that dry skin feel you can really only get from certain ingredients. That’s not to say that there aren’t oils that absorb into the skin/hair or anything, just that “dry oil” is like “dry shampoo”. Dry shampoo ain’t shampoo. I guess I’m just splitting hairs though.

[gld010]

Triethylene Glycol is used as a disinfectant when aerosolized and Isobornyl Acetate is an earthy, pine-y scent. Sounds like whatever you’re making is like Pine-Sol for your mouth.

[gld010]

Ok, I tried between 3-5% c12-15 alkyl benzoate in the formula and the color is more stable. It’ll still change a bit on the borders while it dries and when you blend it, but the color is much more stable than it was. Very frustrating problem. Before your reply I thought it might be oxidation as it’s turning a bit darker and a bit more red, but I thought about it a bit more and there isn’t anything in there that can oxidize as far as I know. 

If there is microencapsulation, how do you prevent that? I was thinking of switching to Lecithin coated pigments instead but they want a vegan formula and our lecithin coating is from eggs. if I used just regular non coated iron oxides that takes away from the waterproof and transfer resistant claims.

[gld010]

I add colloidal oatmeal straight up to the water phase under very fast prop mixing, I pretty much just sprinkle it in. You have to be very careful while sprinkling as it’s very prone to clumping and will thicken your water phase. I only have experience with adding it at marketing levels (0.1% and under) though so if you’re adding more I’d be careful.

[gld010]

Thanks everyone, I hoped that could be a feasible solution (technologically, at least). Sucks that it’s expensive but maybe they’ll still be on board.

[gld010]

Thanks chemicalmatt, I’ll give the C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate a try and see what happens.

[gld010]

Hello all. My name is Gaby and I’ve been employed as a cosmetic chemist since February. I’m still learning the ropes and this forum has helped a lot. I look forward to learning even more.