[Ghita37]

Hello @GeorgeBenson thanks a lot for your help.Alas aloe vera doesnt work on my face, in fact it makes it even drier and i do have aloe vera in my garden 100% organic but it doesnt suit my skin. 

[Ghita37]

@Perry i forgot to ask so can we consider extracts as fillers that dont play a role and just bulk up the formiula of the product? You said no one uses ingredients to bulk up but as you saw on the second INCI list the brand uses extracts only and they are filling in the formula but without any result/ So YES do brands use cheap ingredients just to bulk up and this is exactly what i want. 

So what i learned today is that excipients can also be functional ingredients.Again when i read an article i found tht excipients only carry “functional”ingredients and allow them to penetrate the skin but based on what you said excipients like PROPANEDIOL, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, are actually benfitial to the skin so they are not bulking up the formula.
Can i say they complement the “functional” ingredients and help them play their role better and penetrate the skin better? Would that be a good way to say it? 

[Ghita37]

Thank you so much @Perry.God bless you for your support and help 🙂
My goodness i just learned something new here!

So let me do a recap as usual 🙂

1-I gave 2 INCI decks and you said the first one is actually the potent one!!I thought the second one is the best one 😐

Example 1: INCI list begins – Aqua, Glycerin, Alcohol, Propanediol, Butylene Glycol, Isotridecyl Isononanoate, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Squalane …As you can see excipients are in high dosage here. 

Example 2: INCI list begins – Aqua, Algae (Furcellaria Lumbricalis) Extract, Bacillus/Rice Bran Extract/Soybean Extract Ferment Filtrate, Oligo Sodium Hyaluronate, Rosa Centifolia Flower Extrac

Lesson learned: steer clear from anything that has EXTRACT, dont use them in my products. 

Now i understand why you said the first INCI deck is the one that works!! The second one only has extracts.This is so tiring because articles are misleading/I cant even describe how many articles i read when i started this skincare business. Im glad im talking to real people in this forum and checking my mistakes.Im so humbled to be among you all here experts and beginners alike. Thanks a lot. 

@Perry could you kindly have a look at this INCI deck of this serum and tell me what you think? I just want to know if the hype behind this product is really worth it or again the brand just invested in branding and managed to make a hit out of it! To ME as a beginner it seems to be full of “functional” ingredients.What do you think? 

Sesame Oil (Sesamum Indicum), Rice Bran Oil (Oryza Sativa), Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Manjishta (Rubia Cordifolia), Saffron ( Crocus Sativus), Lodh Tree Bark (Symplocos Racemosa), Nutgrass (Cyperus Rotundus), Vetiver (Vetiveria Zizanoides), Licorice Root (Glycyrrhiza Glabra), Bay Leaf (Cinnamomum Tamala), Himalayan cherry (Prunus Cerasoides), Lotus seed (Nelumbo Nucifera), Pushkarmool (Inula Racemosa), Turmeric(Curcuma Longa), Indian Barberry (Berberis Aristata), Cobra Saffron (Mesua Ferrea), Flame Of The Forest (Butea Menosperma), Priyangu (Callicarpa Macrophylla), Banyan (Ficus Bengalensis), Mustard (Brassica Campestris), Tocopherol, Rose Essential Oil (Rosa Damascena).

As per the waterless neroli cleanser; no im not interested in lying.Im interested in building credibility over the long haul and i know everything i do or say will be held against me.This is why im educating myself while the manufacturer is working on my products.

[Ghita37]

Hello Perry thanks a lot for your reply. Again articles can be so misleading whereby you read incorrect information/I always thought that oils are occlusive because this is what articles say. 
I have dry skin but using Petrolatum like vaseline makes my skin shiny and i dont like that effect.

@Graillotion THANKS a lot dear for your reply/ I read a lot about emulsions and even about the latest emulsion technologies and read about W/O and O/W emultions./Yes emulsion means when you mix two immiscible subtances like oil and vinegar for instance or oil and water so you need a third party to bring them trogether/For instance mayonaise is an emulsifier. 
Indeed i sometimes put shea butter on my face and the thing is that on the cheeks it feels moisturised but on the chin it gets dry.i have dry skin overall/ Shall i use everynight before sleep vaseline on my face after cleansing? It just feel weird to apply vaseline;; lol

[Ghita37]

Hey @Perry. Wow lots of missions here.thanks a lot dear. I loved the Paypal mission, its so concise and really summarise the entire story.Im working on my own mission and basically my idea is to connect my mission to  my brand concept.So thanks for clarifying this as i struggled a lot before on my own. 

[Ghita37]

Thank you @PhilGeis. Im working on my mission statement right now.Thanks to your article i see better now/I like the PnG mission and how it has elements of quality/being the best. 

[Ghita37]

Thank you so much @Perry.I just learned something new now 🙂

1-Why do brands though keep on saying our products are infused wiht the best active ingredients and these same brands sell in the US? 

2-In regards to waterless i mean a product made without plain water but can be replaced by hydrosol for instance.Would that still be considered waterless? 
I found a waterless cleanser that has a 78.55% neroli hydrosol and they said its a waterless cleanser. So my idea behind waterless is to replace plain water with anything that brings real value like hydrosol or fruit juice as these are full of vitamins. 
https://www.thezoereport.com/beauty/waterless-beauty-products-may-just-be-the-future-of-the-industry
So i think the idea is to create products where pure water is replaced with floral water or fruit water or aloe water as these are vitamin rich. 

3-You mentioned that all ingredients are added for a purpose.So what about brands which want to keep their formula to a miminum number of ingredients?Does this mean the product wont perform well as compared to a formula that has 18 ingredients? My idea is to have a line of product where there are ingredients that play a role instead of having a product where we use cheap and useless ingredients to bulk up the formula. I mean keep ingredients to a minimum doesnt mean we wont have a potent product does it? In the class im taking the lecturer said that we can achieve efficacy with a least amount of ingredients in the formula. What do you think? 
Lets say i have a face scrub and we know face scrub are primarily made of 2 main ingredients: exfoliating agent ( chemical or physical) and carrier oil.If its waterless is it okay to not use preservatives? Also if i want to keep my face scrub formulation minimal can i use only 7 ingredients? I just dont want my products to be full of filler ingredients that play no role and if i remove them it wont make much of a difference. Also bulking up a formula with ingredients that are not necessary will just increase the cost of the product.So the idea is to use only whats necessary to treat a speaific skin concern. 

5- if a product is waterless meaning no pure water or floral water should we still put preservative in that product? 

6-I was reading an article  that showed two types of serum formulations.One packed with excipients only and one packed with “functional” ingredients.

Example 1: INCI list begins – Aqua, Glycerin, Alcohol, Propanediol, Butylene Glycol, Isotridecyl Isononanoate, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Squalane …As you can see excipients are in high dosage here. 

Example 2: INCI list begins – Aqua, Algae (Furcellaria Lumbricalis) Extract, Bacillus/Rice Bran Extract/Soybean Extract Ferment Filtrate, Oligo Sodium Hyaluronate, Rosa Centifolia Flower Extract…I believe this second serum here will be potent compared to the first one/ So my idea is to use “functionla”ingredients rather thn bulking up wiht excipients. 

[Ghita37]

Thank you so much @Perry.I just learned something new now 🙂

1-Why do brands though keep on saying our products are infused wiht the best active ingredients and these same brands sell in the US? 

2-In regards to waterless i mean a product made without plain water but can be replaced by hydrosol for instance.Would that still be considered waterless? 
I found a waterless cleanser that has a 78.55% neroli hydrosol and they said its a waterless cleanser. So my idea behind waterless is to replace plain water with anything that brings real value like hydrosol or fruit juice as these are full of vitamins. 
https://www.thezoereport.com/beauty/waterless-beauty-products-may-just-be-the-future-of-the-industry
So i think the idea is to create products where pure water is replaced with floral water or fruit water or aloe water as these are vitamin rich. 

3-You mentioned that all ingredients are added for a purpose.So what about brands which want to keep their formula to a miminum number of ingredients?Does this mean the product wont perform well as compared to a formula that has 18 ingredients? My idea is to have a line of product where there are ingredients that play a role instead of having a product where we use cheap and useless ingredients to bulk up the formula. I mean keep ingredients to a minimum doesnt mean we wont have a potent product does it? In the class im taking the lecturer said that we can achieve efficacy with a least amount of ingredients in the formula. What do you think? 
Lets say i have a face scrub and we know face scrub are primarily made of 2 main ingredients: exfoliating agent ( chemical or physical) and carrier oil.If its waterless is it okay to not use preservatives? Also if i want to keep my face scrub formulation minimal can i use only 7 ingredients?

5- if a product is waterless meaning no pure water or floral water should we still put preservative in that product? 

[Ghita37]

Hello. 
Im enquiring because im taking cosmetology classes and am interested in learning. Im outsourcing the manufacturing to a third party  manufacturer and this should not prevent me from asking questions and learning from experts.  The expert in any field was once a beginner who also enquired.
There are a lot of people here who also enquire and want to learn/A forum is  place for debate,discussions,and advices. 
Thanks

[Ghita37]

Hello @toketsu;Thanks a lot for your answers and for clarifying all my doubts. 
Few points remain unclear in regards to the last answers if you could check them again please. 

1-So waterless means that i cant even put aloe vera juce or rose water or fruit water like kiwi water in the formulation instead of water? Bceuase aloe vera juice or rose water are derived from plants and these are beneficial as opposed to plain water that wont do anything. 

2-For in a facial cleanser like a gel cleanser can water be replaced by rose water or aloe vera juice? Lets say i want to have a waterless skincare line; so how can i have a gel cleanser without water? Also i want waterless so as to reduce water consumtion which is good for the environment.is Aloe vera juice obtained by adding water to aloe vera? 

3-I asked if i can replace water with fruit water or ale juice or rose water and you said it depends on the formulation.So lets say its for a cleansing gel for dry skin.Is it possible? 

4-Also are gel textures suitable for dry and senstive skin? I read that when it comes to a cleanser for instance gels are better for acne prone and oily skin and that dry skin is better off zith oily textures.So is it possible to have an oily gel? 

[Ghita37]

Also are products without fillers in skincare a myth or do they exist? Because apparently excipients are important. 
Thanks

[Ghita37]

Hello Danny.Im also interested in the topic .By the way does waterless mean that it cant even be replaced with rose water or fruit water or aloe vera juice? 
And does waterless always come in the form of a powder? 

[Ghita37]

Hey guys

Can i add this to the mission statement

Bceause i love you( my customers) i dont care about how long it takes me to develop a product; i care about providing the right product for your specific concern  even if it takes me time to source the ingredients from abroad. 
So this is all connected to ATTENTION TO DETAILS 
Another point i want to emphasise is that through this brand i want people to focus on the most important and cut down on the superluous; meanins you dont need to look perfect to be beautiful for Beauty is a regular process that entails using products that you need on a regular basis to get results. 
I m just scared people when they read this end up saying: Meh nothing special! Again Rihana in her Fenty Skin knew how to craft a compelling story and i read that Fenty was not the only brand to come up with many shqdes of foudnation; she just knew HOW TO SELL HER CONCEPT; and this is what im striving her. 
What do you think? 

[Ghita37]

The part that scares me the most and the one i want to focus on is BUILDING A CUSTOMER CENTRIC skincarz brand.
An article im reading about Rihanna says that she owes her massive success to the fact that instead of just relying on her name to sell the brand, she focused on creating products that put the customer first and helped to increase diversity within the beauty business.
So to be customer centric we either have to do surveys or like perry said we should track what are people complaining about on social media that we could adress right? 

[Ghita37]

I was reading an article on anti aging and how women many women are rejecting this now. 
I read a sentence but im not sure i understand it:

Beyond the fact that much anti-aging beautification is scientifically baseless

Does this mean that anti aging products scientifically speaking havent been proven to slow down the aging process? So when a cream or any product claims to be anti aging this has no scientifc backup, right? 

[Ghita37]

Thank you loads @Perry for your help. 
So lets say im following 100 people on IG this means i have to go through every account and analyse 10000’s posts? 

[Ghita37]

@Perry so basically cosmetics doesnt have to be complicated! If you know your HERO (ideal customer) you can sell anything to them right? Lets say i dont have a product that has a wow effect on people but this product is for a specific type of people(hero) who has a specific problem;So my role is to FIND THAT HERO and sell  the product to them right? 

[Ghita37]

Perry i love the Mojo framework and im going to apply it now/So can we say that the mojo is a brand story framework? 
Also in the mojo they mention to incentivize people to work aith them they zqnt to show them  WHAT FAILURE LOOKS LIKE IF YOU DONT MAKE A CHANGE.So can i use that framework as well for my products? Lets say that for the cleanser i use this entire framework; would that be good? 

So when you told me last week Perry that focus on a good brand story; packaging, good fragrance and you are good to go.When you said brand story you then referred to this mojo framework? So all brand stories should follow this framework? I always htought that a brand story goes something like: oh our ingredient is sourced from the depth of the ocean and after years of research we discovered that this ingredient has powerful effects on the skin etc.I thought that this is what brand story looks like but i believe that based on what you said brand stories mean: who is the hero/ what is their problem/how can we provide a solution/ etc
Am i right @Perry?

[Ghita37]

Hey Perry thank you so much; But i still dont understand how following someone on IG  tells me about them? Because i follow people on IG but when i enter their page to check their poctures i dont see anything; so lets say i follow you on IG how do i know from your post what you are talking about  or what problems you have? Cus when you check people posts you see only a caption but you dont see aporblem.IG used to allow us to see what people are posting on other accounts not anymore so how do i find what problems the people im following have? 
Thanks 

[Ghita37]

Im reading an article that explains why Rihana Skin was a hit.
The article says that Rihana first listens then she posts and by that they mean that she has ability to pay attention to the conversations happening on the internet, learn from them and then create products or content people want to see. Within the online beauty community, she saw a desperate call to action for brands to expand their foundation color ranges, so she did exactly that. When Fenty Beauty launched, the company offered a range of 40 foundation shades, finally catering to those who were ignored by the beauty industry. This led to explosive reviews of Rihanna’s makeup line, all filled with relief and excitement from fans.

then the articles adds: 

What Rihanna realized is that social media isn’t just a platform for putting content out and receiving feedback; it’s a tool that should be used to understand what consumers are asking for. Practice social media research by following clients/customers back, reviewing their accounts, paying attention to what they’re posting and giving them what they want, not what you think they need

So my question is: where does she listen to those concervsation to know whats lacking in the market? I want to listen as well but where do i find those conservation happening or taking place? 

Also when they say practice social media by following clients back,  paying attention to what they’re posting and giving them what they want.How can i do this? Lets say one of you here is my client and you folow me on IG and i follow you back.How will i know once i follow you back what you are posting cus on IG you cant know this anymore, and reviewing their account means checking their post; how will this help if i check people’s posts? Can someone help me with that that i can hire it can be a junior so i dont pay them a lot a junior freelancer but what should i ask them to do? 

[Ghita37]

I gave the example of Kopari which is a skincarz brand founded by two girls from Hawai who discovered the virtue of coconut and wanted to launch their skincarz brand.As you can all see the products are okay; i havent tried them but i mean you feel there is no scientific effort behind the brand.Ech prodycts are infused wiht ingredients we are familair with YET the brand is successfdul , it sells at ULTA, SEPHORA. etc. The brand’s founders are not celebrity they are normal people like you and I but they knew how to make it BIG. 

There is another brand that is successful called RANAVAT, founded by a girl from India;The brand retails ar Harrods in London; Sephora in the USA. 
The hero product that propelled the brand to fame is the SAFFRON SERUM 
https://www.ranavat.com/products/brightening-saffron-serum

Personally i find Ranavat more innovative ( correct me if im wrong) than Koparior ùaybe its just an impression that im having. mAYBE Ranavt is more innovative because she uses ingredient sourced from India and she knows the market there so she knows what to put in her products.What do you think? OR do you think its in her brand story? 
What i noticed is that there were other brands but only few who developed a saffron face serum yet they didnt achieve the level of popularity Ranavat achieved.Why is that?
So there other saffron serum brands that are not as popular as Ranavat 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0486%2F2715%2F5109%2Fproducts%2Fimage.png%3Fv%3D1651035223&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fdewdropskincare.co.za%2Fproducts%2Fbrightening-saffron-elixir-serum-available-on-pre-order&tbnid=g0LhZlUhpxORFM&vet=12ahUKEwihsqvQ5bL8AhV-gScCHbZuDgcQMygsegUIARC6Ag..i&docid=DKsT1bQ8JdqPmM&w=1080&h=1080&q=saffron%20serum&ved=2ahUKEwihsqvQ5bL8AhV-gScCHbZuDgcQMygsegUIARC6Ag
This brand DEWDROP also has a serum that is like Ranavat’s yet they are not as susccessful and i checked the ingredients they are almost the same! So why did Ranavat make it and dewdrop not as much? 

Also i want my priudtcs to feature only the necessry ingredeints i dont want to have 10 ingredients if only 5 are going to devliver results cus the other 5 are just there making the product expensive.So my idea is to keep things to a strict minimum to deliver results.
Check for instance Ranavat saffron serum, it has lots of ingredients and are they all necessary to deliver the result which is BRIGHTENING?

[Ghita37]

Hey @Perry i was reading again your answer and Fenty Skin by Rihana struck my mind/ She disrupted the market by coming up wiht a new “concept” which is to offer foundations for all skin shades.So whats innovative here is not the product or packaging but the IDEA that she is now backing up wiht action and the action is to OFFER A RANGE OF FOUNDATION FOR ALL SKIN TONES. So is this innovation of concept or brand story as you mention? 

You said 

In my opinion the only innovation in the cosmetic industry is in the marketing stories. If you look at the most successful brands, they are simply compelling marketing stories backed up by decent formulas with appealing fragrances.

[Ghita37]

Hi @MarkBroussard thanks for your reply.Again kopari was founded by two girls with no science background yet the brand is flying.So how are they innovative or how are they successful? 

[Ghita37]

Hello everyone

Thank you so much @PhilGeis, when i think innovation Fenty Skin by Rihana is always on my mind.She innovated by doing somehting others didnt do which is to offer a line of foundation for eevery skin tone; be it youhave fair skin or dark or in between everyone is served and yesterday i was looking at her FB page called Fenty A new Culture of skincare and this is to true; she brought a new culture if you will.I want to do something like that which wont have to cost the same but i want something that others didnt do. So how can i do that? This is innovation the product themseves are not infused wiht some impressive ingredients but its the story she created back by action and the action is that she took care of all skin tones.

[Ghita37]

Hello @mikethair thanks for your response.So are you saying that a soap begins to clean only when its PH is alkaline?