georgetedder
Forum Replies Created
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Hope Im not coming to the discussion too late. I would be very interested in this service myself, and would even consider offering up some of my (albeit) limited resources to help. It seems like a promising idea. It would seem the solution lies in streamlining ingredients and packaging. Customers provide their own labels for bottles, and even certain “claims” or “unique” ingredients which the manufacturer does not keep on hand, and the manufacturer uses standard (but elegant) packaging to complete the project.
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@paranoiagent I don’t mean to sound rude myself, but I think you’re being overly sensitive. I didn’t read any of the comments as condescending. This forum is full of industry insiders and professionals, people who are offering time and expertise free of charge for everyone interested in cosmetic science — services which some consultants may charge for (even to answer some of the simple questions you asked). No one has implied your idea isn’t novel; it very well may be. No one has implied you won’t have a good marketing strategy for a product which is extremely unique. These individuals aren’t trying to discourage you at all, but rather are telling you to be cautious; they’ve seen it all, and they don’t want you to lose money, or waste time. How is that condescending?
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Well, I should be slightly more generous. Benzoin does have a vanillic note; it’s sweet, but also resinous, sticky, syrupy, smoky and nutty. It’s aroma is quite complex
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Benzoin has a distinct smell of its own. It does have fixative properties, but cannot simply be added to an emulsion without effecting the smell of the fragrance. It’s soluable in DPG. I can usually get a 50% solution with gentle persistent heating.
Benzoin smells nothing of vanilla — though the two work well together. It has a sweet ambery smell.
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I tend to side with perry. There is a lot here I won’t bother to repeat, but, I love how “sulfate free” is only extended to SLS and SLEs. Apparently BTMS isn’t a sulfate — or maybe it’s a sulfate which is OK for your hair. Words like “sulfate” mean nothing to consumers — they buy a scare story. The allergen argument is compelling, but that is totally different than saying something is “dioxane” free (obviously) is completely different
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@bobzchemist Thank you for such an informative response! I am well aware that most perfumes are not “simple” in composition; sometimes, if they are made with speciality bases they can have hundreds. I have dabbled with making fragrances for a long time but now I am becoming serious about perfuming for functional products, like shower gels and the like. That is why i asked about general use levels. I like you’re idea about the “triangle test” and will put it to you soon. Thank you all again; I really enjoy reading and participating on this forum.
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@david many fragrances (fragrance oils) sold for use in soap do come diluted. Also, it depends on when the fragrance is added. If one makes CP soap, it will require a fragrance which has many more base notes than those which can be used in hot process — this is because the soap gets so hot, and it stays hot for a long time. Also, what you have mentioned is quite true — soap has a high pH, even if it’s pH is adjusted with citric acid after complete saponification (close to pKa) it is likely still well above eight. Many fragrance materials are not stable in such a pH and can degrade, react with others to form odorless materials, and, even worse in the eyes of many manufactures discolor. vanillin is the classic example — it goes brown to black.
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What about in bathing products? Bubble bath, for example?
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Merry Christmas to you as well. Thank you to everyone on this forum for giving such valuable help!
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I thank you all for your comments.
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What did you mean by “difference”? difference in good quality/bad quality?
Smooth transition is a good one to point out — so many fragrances are so flat and boring.
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@audren look at the price tag …. All sarcasm aside, you really will never know whether or not expensive raw materials or brand names are driving up the cost of your fragrance blend. The manufacturer will set the price based on many many factors ….
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As a side note, I am not aware of ANY fragrance ingredients which are water soluble except phenyl ethyl alcohol (and i have read hydroxyxcitronellal is as well? — I cannot confirm). In any event, you will ALWAYS need something to solubize.
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@bobzchemist - hope I’m not too insensitive, but that comment LITERALLY made me “LOL”
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what about peg 150 distearate? In shower gels you get similar reology with peg150 ds and crothix — sometimes at high concentrations it’s almost Newtonian/honey like. It can get sticky. I like that feeling though.
The downside is, I guess, crothix comes in liquid form but peg50 ds is a bit annoying to melt …
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Thank everyone so much for the responses. This forum is really so cool, friendly and helpful all around. Also, @bobzchemist thank you so much for posting all of those links. The articles were very insightful. Your Comments on all the discussions are always very helpful and interesting. Thank you guys so much!
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@Belassi I like the images on the website you posted links to. In regards to SFIC bases, if you order directly from them, you get them for less than two dollars a pound. That’s without shipping, of course. Minimum order quantity of 250 pounds is a bit hefty, but it’s actually quite economical if you are a high-volume soap sales person. Like I said, I prefer cold process soap but try out their shea base, it’s good!
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In fact, the ingredient list what you posted above looks like an SFIC base. The image online however, is that a glycerin soap, which always get really sticky in my opinion. Try the oatmeal or Shea butter base, and I think you’ll find that you won’t have lathering or mildness issues. I, too, prefer cold process soap, but, for melt and pour I think there are some good options.
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I sort of disagree about melt and pour soaps. Some of the bases which BrambleBerry sells, on top of being extremely mild, lather very well, and hold fragrance very well. Some of them are detergent based melt and pours, so they’re not true soaps; but they do carry true soap bases from SFIC (Shea butter base comes to mind) which, all be it a little expensive, lather extremely well.
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Sorry, meant to say Steareth-2.
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what I really need to do is remove the salicylic acid, and try again. Like I said I was just hoping to get a general answer to the question of whether using a Hi-Shear homogenizer with foaming surfactants is “okay”, or not recommended.
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Ihaven’t use the homogenizer yet so I don’t know how it works, I’ve been using an overhead mixer, and the mixture stays together for several weeks, but it starts to separate. I’m not sure if this is due to the fact that the pH is low, salicylic acid adjusted to around 4.0, or because a proper suspension was not formed. I was looking for more of a general suggestion as to which method is preferable. Is there any inherent problem with homogenizing foaming surfactants (mixture of SCI, betaine and decyl glucoside)?
I agree that this is slightly too oily, but this is in line with what my former students mother, who owns a spa for which I formulate some simple products, requested — she wants something which is low foaming, and re-fattening for extremely dry skin types.
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I’m not a professional, nor am I really a chemist, so take my comment with a grain of salt. I started making my own products, when the Art of shaving aftershave balm became too expensive for me. At first I used stearic acid as a thickener, but used to get acne after using it - even when I made a moisturizer with 8% glycolic acid, I still broke out when using steric acid as a thickener. I have extremely extremely oily Italian skin. When I removed that ingredient from my formula, the effect went away. That could just be my skin though. I don’t use stearic acid in any of the stuff I make anymore, except bar soap.
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The study is basically to determine if the length of an ingredient list can positively effect your perception of the product. There are four groups (1) Read/Use Long, (2) Read/Use Short, (3) No Read/ Use Long. (4) No Read/Use Short. Theoretically, there should be no difference between (1) and (3) and (2) and (4). Also, as a whole there should be no difference between groups (1)(2) and (3)(4). I will perform a two way ANOVA to test this once the data are fully collected.
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Hi everyone,
My name is George Tedder and for the past few years have been a home formulator (no industry experience). Recently an esthetician whose son I used to teach contacted me about formulating and helping her develop her own line of cosmetics for her clients, so Im here to learn all I can!
