[emma1985]

I prefer Butylene Glycol as a humectant but Propylene as a solvent. It’s a more effective solvent than the others (for example when solubilizing Ferulic Acid.)

[emma1985]

I’ve used Softisan and yes I think it helps slightly. Softisan is itself grainy which is quite weird. But graininess doesn’t come through after melter and cooled. 

[emma1985]

Hydroquinone is banned in the EU, is available over the counter in the US at 2% and prescriptions here in the US go up to 8% I believe. I’m not convinced it’s harmful.

[emma1985]

BTMS 25 is not a complete emulsifer. BTMS 50 is.

It’s possible to obtain a stable emulsion with BTMS 25 if enough is used, but it’s not really recommended. 

[emma1985]

Sorry, i should have said best balance between stability and viscosity/oil phase concentration that I desire. 

[emma1985]

Thanks everyone, unfortunately I can’t get Isolan, but I found another w/o emulsifer - Polyglyceryl Oleate that is readily accessible. Can I use this as a co-emulsifer? I really would love to use this as a co-emulsifer.

I’m also going to be using Sodiums Lactate and PCA, would these help with stability at all?

Sorry for the silly questions.

I was planning on using 25% oil phase as that gives the best balance of viscosity and stability based on the chart provided in the manufacturer description. 

[emma1985]

Okay, doesn’t appear that Sodium chloride is readily available from my usual sellers. It’s just so frustrating because there is almost no information about this emulsifer. I suppose I’ll try with Cetyl and see what happens. I think the Cicaplast uses Stearic Acid. 

Intuitively to me it follows that an o/w emulsifer would not be compatible, which is unfortunate because I’ve got a ton of those. 

[emma1985]

Sorry for all the questions, i really want to use a co-emulsifer but I’m not sure which are compatible. All of the other emulsifers I own are o/w.  I’m assuming those would not work. Does Cetyl Alcohol work as a stabilizer?

[emma1985]

Sorry, I’m not sure what you mean by the salt. What else can be used as a stabilizer? Does Cetyl Alcohol function as such with this emulsifer?

[emma1985]

I’m thinking 25% oil phase, based on the graph in the PDF.. 

I usually use 2-3 plant oils, 1 plant butter, some Cetyl Alcohol and Cetyl Ester, esters like Lauryl Laurate, Isoamyl Laurate and Coco Caprylate. I would normally use Dimethicone 350 in the oil phase but I think it’s unneeded here.

In the water phase I usually use Hyaluronic Acid, Propanediol, Butylene Glycol, Sodiums Lactate and PCA.

Also antioxidants like Niacinamide, N Acetyl Glucosamine, Qmax and glycerin extracts.

[emma1985]

Wow, i can’t believe I didn’t realize until now that Cicaplast used it!! I’ve been using that stuff for years. 

Any thoughts on my suggested formulation instructions?

[emma1985]

Thank you so much! So you mean Xanthan Gum and the like? I don’t use Xanthan Gum anyway (soapy.) Anything else incompatible? Thanks again!! 

[emma1985]

I like Niacinamide, N Acetyl Glucosamine and Aloe Vera powder. And panthenol.

[emma1985]

Also I don’t think Sorbitan Stearate is a complete emulsifer.

[emma1985]

I always subtract a couple of grams of water from the water phase and use it to dissolve powder ingredients that need to be added in cool down. I’ve seen people just add powder directly into the cool down but it is not something I would do. 

I wouldn’t add almond oil in the cool down because your cool down phase would be too large and your emulsion would likely break. In my experience, cool down needs to be ~5% total.

Instead of switching almond oil to the cool down, limit how much heat you are using to begin with. Personally I don’t believe that heat and hold is necessary at all, so in most cases I’m heating to 150-160 for only 5 minutes or so, just long enough for the solid ingredients to melt and the powder ingredients to dissolve. 

[emma1985]

Pattsi said:

For emollience, why add 68, why not Cetearyl Alcohol alone?
or you intend to do multi-Glucosided lamellar.

Hope this might help
https://patents.justia.com/patent/9949900

This is a great question and I’m curious because I’m having emulsification failures with Montanov 68 as well. Would just using Cetearyl Alcohol add the silkiness that Montanov 68 does? How is Cetearyl Alcohol different from Cetyl Alcohol in terms of skinfeel and application? I love Cetyl and use it all the time..

[emma1985]

Mostly water, Resveratrol and Ferulic Acid both dissolved in Dimethyl Isosorbide
. It doesn’t have to be transparent. I suppose maybe I can use a tiny amount of Aristoflex or Sepimax and have a gel serum? 

The 5% oil part is just IPM or C12-15 AB, with Lipochroman-6 dispersed in it. 

[emma1985]

Thank you. Looks like it’s gonna be a bit of a challenge to source Polysorbate 85 without buying kgs of it. 

What it I used Capric Caprylic Triglycerides as my oil phase? Is there a more commonly available Polysorbate (or other solubilizer) I can use?

[emma1985]

If it matters, the “oil” will be either IPM or C12-15 AB.

[emma1985]

I think what you may be referring to is that the more hydrated the skin is, the more permeable it is. That’s what I’ve read.

[emma1985]

@ngarayeva001 I concur. I’ve been using some combination of Niacinamide and 2% NAG for at least 2 years daily. Starting with 5% Niacinamide and working up to 10% Niacinamide, always with 2% NAG. I have not noticed any additional benefit from using Niacinamide alone 

[emma1985]

I find Propanediol (a water soluble humectant) quite glowy. Amongst oils, Shea Butter and Squalane, but honestly most oils will give you that glowy look.

Also high concentrations of Hyaluronic Acid and acrylates.

[emma1985]

Squalane and Propanediol are said to be penetration enhancers. And Glycols. Maybe Propanediol can play both a humectant and penetration enhancer role in your formulation. I absolutely love it because I find it to be an extremely effective (and simultaneously non sticky!!) humectant. It’s also seemingly more “conditioning” than other humectants in my experience.

Where are you getting Malachite from?

And is this mist inspired by NIOD Superoxide Dismutase Saccharide Mist?
I love that product and use it daily.

[emma1985]

@Graillotion what % do you use of Betaine? 

[emma1985]

@Graillotion thank you so much!! I’m in the US so ITDF is perfect because I believe they are in the US. I really really didn’t want to order internationally. I can’t thank you enough!! ????????☺️