Doreen
Forum Replies Created
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@ngarayeva001
Agreed on the EO’s. I wonder where that ‘essential’ oil hype came from anyway. They’re neither essential nor special in my opinion. -
@EliseCortes
What a great article, thanks for sharing! -
@Bill_Toge
About the scents mentioned in this thread.
I was just enjoying a thread named ‘best and worst smelling chemicals’ on a science forum, when I read the reply of a forum member that wondered (and I quote): “What in the unholy hell is the smell that comes off of sodium hydrosulfite in solution. It’s abominable and more vile than hydrogen sulfide alone. “I had to think of you and your ‘tub of death’ nickname. :joy: :joy:
I nearly fell on the floor laughing when I read a possible answer (several sulphurous compounds that are formed in your nose) and experiences from other members. (gag inducing Taco Bell fart smell)
@NoviceKarel
My excuses for being off topic with this, but I just had to share it.
Even phenoxyethanol gone rancid can’t be thát bad. 😉 -
@ngarayeva001
I have a chart here on oils and if I look at the composition, I think it’s very sensitive to oxidation, maybe even more so than grapeseed oil.
@Gunther pointed out the way they use iodine to determine the amount of unsaturation in fatty acids. The higher the number, the more double carbon bonds there are present in the oil.
The iodine value of rosehip oil is very high (175-185), coconut oil for example is less than 10. Grapeseed oil is 125-142, according to this chart.
I don’t mind sharing it, but it’s all in Dutch. -
I guess it’s personal then. Pure phenoxyethanol, just like benzyl alcohol and phenethyl alcohol, have a flowery scent to me. Can’t say I dislike it. ❁
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@ngarayeva001
The label says it’s ‘stabilised’ and I do suspect a treatment like Chemist 77 wrote. The oil is now a year old and although it’s kept at 4C constantly, it doesn’t smell rancid or off. I have opened an closed it numerous times. I don’t find any BHT or tocopherol additions in the document that came with it.
At work we have this handy nitrogen supply (g) for treating several preparations ‘under modified atmosphere’. Wish I had it at home sometimes! 😉 -
@ngarayeva001
You’re sure your phenoxyethanol isn’t in a blend? My pure phenoxyethanol has a slight flowery scent, I like it. The worst smelling blend for me was Geogard 221. I like the smell of benzyl alcohol, but the dehydroacetic acid made it just plain terrible. -
@Chemist77
Ok, thanks! -
@Gunther
I had a chart with info on several kinds of oils and noticed the ‘iodine value’, never given much thought about it, but now I understand what it means, thanks! :+1:Right now I have refined rosehip oil, on the label it also says ‘stabilised’, do you have any idea what is meant with that? I can only find information on stabilisation of crude oil, to be made safe for shipment on tankers. 😐
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In some product types, higher concentrations like 5% are seen as safe by FDA and even 36% (in cuticle softeners). It’s a document from 2013, I don’t know if and what has been changed in the mean time:
http://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/tocopherols.pdf
Some people are even allergic to tocopherol:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20487657
(Luckily it is “an uncommon phenomenon”) -
You don’t have to worry about pro oxidative activity with tocopheryl acetate (neither anti oxidative as far as I remember).
Tocopheryl acetate is used as skin active and according to CIR/SCCS you can use higher doses. I’m still not sure how it really benefits the skin, some studies seem to contradict. I haven’t been into the whole vitamine E matter for quite a while, so it’s all from the top of my head.
Maybe the experts can chime in? -
If you don’t have troubles with allantoin and the Sepinov EMT 10 together, maybe you don’t need to exclude it. I used a higher dose of allantoin (1.5% together with betaine. Betaine (trimethylglycine) can make salicylic acid and allantoin more soluble in water). If you just use 0.5% allantoin (or less) maybe it’s not a ‘major interaction’.
I thought the optimal dose for (alpha)tocopherol, or a combination, is 0.05 - 0.1% and it shouldn’t exceed 0.2%.
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In the time that I was writing my reply, @Perry had already written the answer. :joy:
Thanks Perry! I was also uncertain, now we know the answer! :+1:
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It doesn’t sound silly at all. As a matter of fact, you post interesting questions.
I also use synthetic oils, I have the idea that they hardly oxidize or don’t oxidize at all, but I’m not totally sure. I use petrolatum quite often. And I love the fact that they’re cheap in comparison with veggies.Lately I’m not as big a fan of tocopherol anymore, as (alpha)tocopherol paradoxically tends to be pro oxidative in even slightly higher doses. The suppliers of the tocopherol I buy never can tell which type of tocopherol they sell, alpha, gamma, delta, or a combination.
Right now I’ve also got BHT and a mixture of rosemary extract+ascorbyl palmitate+gamma & delta tocopherol in sunflower oil and lecithins in stock (Phytrox LTR15-IP MB).
A while ago I totally forgot about it containing lecithins and I use parabens nearly all the time. I hope the small quantity of lecithin didn’t make the parabens totally inactive.
There’s so much you have to keep in mind. Like a while ago I put allantoin together with an anionic emulsifier together in an acidic emulsion. Totally forgot about allantoin being amphoteric. :confused: -
@Sibech
Anything on cosmetics that change pore size permanently? -
About the pores: what I meant was: you can’t reduce the size permanently, of course they can “open and close’ due to circumstances.
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@Mrs_ditdut
About the substitute for HA:Perry said:No, you don’t need to add anything unless you want to.Of course, I think you could get the same results using a 5% solution of Glycerin plus a thickener and a preservative.
I agree with him, but I also understand @ngarayeva001, I was the same years ago. I have spent so much on ingredients like hyaluronic acid and several extracts, what I now see as a waste of money. If I am honest, I haven’t noted a single difference between the serums filled with expensive ingredients or a simple one, like Perry wrote. Be sceptical, it can save you so much money.
If you want to rule out the placebo effect, you should perform a single (or double) blinded placebo controlled test, in other words: you make two identical looking and smelling (and feeling) serums with the only difference that one of them contains all the expensive ingredients and the other doesn’t (but can have the same effect, like Perry’s suggestion).
A second (or third) person has to take care of the labeling and knowing which one is the placebo and which one the other. This person or the other (if you want it double blinded) should hand you the serums, which are labeled, but so that you don’t know what’s in it.This is the scientific (and only) way to truly find out if a substance, whether it’s pharmaceutical or cosmetic, has a certain, mostly desirable, effect.
Edit: I can tell you right now that your serum will not reduce pore size. If you take a look into how the skin works, you will see that a pore doesn’t have the capability to tighten or ‘shrink’. What ís posible with pores, if that you make it look like they’re smaller (with make up/primer etc), but in fact, they have still the same size (provided that they’re not clogged).
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@ngarayeva001
The LOI you list is the same as the SK Influx.
I have attached the Evonik data sheet, hopefully it’s helpful.
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@ngarayeva001
Strange. I have never had blushers clog pores, not visibly, nothing, no problem at all. (I use pink powder blushers from different brands btw.) I’ve never had comedones, only now and then a pimple and that’s it. And my pores aren’t dilated. Maybe that has something to do with it? -
@ngarayeva001
I have just looked up the storage recommendations of Evonik on UL Prospector, this is what it says:Storage
• The product is stable for 1 year when
stored at 10 - 15°C.• Kept at room temperature the product is stable
for half a year.
• The product should not be stored at temperatures
lower than 10°C. -
@ngarayeva001
Evonik recommended it not to store it below 10C. -
Don’t know if it’s already mentioned, but the ceramide complex SK Influx by Evonik that was mentioned by @MarkBroussard can have influence on the viscosity of an O/W emulsion (can drop considerably). In W/O emulsions, don’t use more than 3%, something to do with phase inversion.
Add it to the water phase. It’s incompatible with cationics and don’t keep it stored in the fridge.I’ve used it a few times in moisturizers and toners and this is what I remember about it, I hope it’s helpful to you if you consider purchasing it! Good luck!
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@ngarayeva001
I just wonder if people actually return it or not. Because it is very clear for me that this product won’t do much.I also wonder. But the placebo effect must be high and a lot of people are willing to believe pseudo science bullcrap. Google ‘La Mer’ cream and look up the ingredients and the prices. They have so many customers and get so much positive reviews, it’s almost unbelievable.
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@ngarayeva001
I prefer cheaper alternatives for both gel formers as TEWL reducers.
But I’m a homecrafter, I can imagine the difference for the cosmetic scientists who are formulating professionaly.