[domicanica]

Thank you @Pharma. Honestly I think I’m going to have to go back and do more research on chelating and exactly what’s taking place chemically to really figure out which one I’d like to use. Or just find a chemist. And like you said, manufacturer booklets tell one story and real life is another. If I had decided to just rely on manufacturer’s info and info on repackager’s website I’d potentially end up using something ineffective or incompatible with the rest of my ingredients.

[domicanica]

Thanks Mark. How do you like it as opposed to EDDS?

[domicanica]

thank you perry, i’ll try to get some of that. regarding customer perception, is sodium phytate a suitable chelator?

[domicanica]

Thank you veryyyy much. Took a bit of googling but I understand what you’re saying, mentioning pKa values was very helpful.

May I ask, what’s your honest take on EDTA vs phytic acid? Or do you prefer some other chelating agent? And let me say I’m not a natural formulator but I’m trying to formulate using more of the “natural alternatives” just for marketing purposes and public perception. Thank you.

[domicanica]

Also, can someone explain to me how sodium lauroyl lactylate is supposed to be used? I’m seeing that it’s used at 1.5% to 3.0 % in
emulsions and 10 to 30 % in surfactant systems, does this mean that if i want to use it for cleansing/as a surfactant I should use it at 10-30% and for all its other properties use it at 1.5 - 3%? I already have 4 surfactants in my formula that I’m satisfied with in terms of cleansing, I just really want to try it for foam boosting and moisturizing…

[domicanica]

thanks @Graillotion and @abierose !

[domicanica]

Hey @Graillotion, I’m just wondering if you have an opinion on Essential Wholesale, Wholesale Supplies Plus and Making Cosmetics?

[domicanica]

Hi, thanks for responding! I’m located in the Caribbean and my shipping address is in the US. I see that they have SLMI at an affordable price but shipping to the US is $70 sigh.

[domicanica]

who’s saying they’re allergic to fragrance?

[domicanica]

Thanks @chemicalmatt , I’m aware that salt only really works when there’s an anionic present and doesn’t thicken non-ionics well. I just don’t understand why it would work with one anionic and not the other. I have hydroxymethylcellulose on hand, I’ll just see what happens with that. Any recommended reading for surfactant chemistry?

[domicanica]

@Benz3ne, seems to be synthetic fragrance, i haven’t had the same issue using body wash that’s scented with essential oils. it very well may be that the percentage of fragrance in the product was just very high or too high for me but from experience, synthetic fragrances in body wash causes irritation and other uncomfortable issues for me.

[domicanica]

Hmm thanks @Perry your last point was especially helpful and sparked an idea in my head. I was mostly worried about buyer perception but I will go ahead and explore synthetic fragrances as an option. Maybe if I’m transparent enough and make sure to write enough educational material on my website and social media channels people won’t mind.

[domicanica]

@Perry Thank you for confirming. Are there any resources or recommendations for small fragrance houses on here?

Also, you say you generally think synthetic fragrances is better to use, I guess because they can be formulated to be as non-reactive as possible whereas you can’t quite easily make modifications to natural fragrances while keeping them natural? Do you think people with sensitive skin and skin conditions can ever safely use products with synthetic fragrance with no issues? Maybe if it’s very lightly scented and the fragrance is included at a very small percentage?

[domicanica]

Hmmm @Graillotion are all those 3% oils on the NDA website basically plant extracts/essential oils just diluted in carrier oils? For instance from my research lotus essential oil doesn’t seem to be a thing but it seems like they’ve maybe extracted an aromatic part of the lotus flower and added it to an oil…seems like a great way to keep the ingredient list natural while still incorporating an attractive scent… Thank you for that, I’m going to look into those.

[domicanica]

I’ve been searching for it too since formulatorsampleshop no longer carries it. I still can’t find a US supplier but naturallythinking in the UK sells it now. bayhousearomatics sells it as well but they have a minimum order amount of 50 pounds. I ‘m shipping to the US Virgin Islands so I feel your pain in regards to shipping but it seems like this is the best option. 

[domicanica]

Thank you so much for replying. You’re saying that potentially, after I do figure out my “final formula” and then add the preservative I might have to go back and make tweaks to accommodate for the change?

[domicanica]

from what i understand about that particular blend, its very weak against yeasts so you’re going to have to add something like glyceryl caprylate to make up for that.

[domicanica]

Thank you all for the help, I really really appreciate it!

[domicanica]

Graillotion said:

domicanica said:

Graillotion said:

The biggest functional difference between the cheap stick blenders….and the Mini-pro….is the ability to adjust speed.  None of the cheap ones that I burned through….could operate slowly.  Their slowest setting was faster than I often wanted in certain situations.  
The other thing….as I burned through 3 of them in about 9 months….they actually ended up being no cheaper….than one good one.   

You can not measure cost…when you need to slowly stir air out of your emulsion towards the end.

oooh okay, i see. i think i’ll end up going with this one, it’s in my price range and sounds like my best bet since im just starting out. did you have to buy this attachment tool as well? : https://www.dynamicmixersusa.com/product/ac560/

As a bit of a perfectionist….I did buy that attachment….and I believe I paid more for it…than the machine.
It was completely unnecessary!  Could not tell any difference in performance with the attachments that came with it (4).  ** Note ** so far I only used it in small 240 gm batches, my opinion may change as I ramp up into 4L batches.
However…as I switch to a new project, using lamellar emulsifiers, I think it will come in handy….where I can easily switch attachments after making the initial emulsion, and then switch to the other attachment during cool down and stirring.
Note….this is a very heavy…well built machine.  (Made in France)  So it will not be a light weight made in China gadget you may have seen in stores.  Being that it is therefore a little top heavy…always make sure to be careful…if you are leaving it standing up in a small sample beaker.  (Lost more than one batch…to an unfortunate tip over.)

Noted! I think I’ll definitely try to get my hands on that machine, thank you so much!

[domicanica]

Graillotion said:

The biggest functional difference between the cheap stick blenders….and the Mini-pro….is the ability to adjust speed.  None of the cheap ones that I burned through….could operate slowly.  Their slowest setting was faster than I often wanted in certain situations.  
The other thing….as I burned through 3 of them in about 9 months….they actually ended up being no cheaper….than one good one.   

You can not measure cost…when you need to slowly stir air out of your emulsion towards the end.

oooh okay, i see. i think i’ll end up going with this one, it’s in my price range and sounds like my best bet since im just starting out. did you have to buy this attachment tool as well? : https://www.dynamicmixersusa.com/product/ac560/

[domicanica]

Pattsi said:

an overhead stirrer will do if you can find it within $250.
a stick blender is cheaper might be a good starter and then get a stirrer when you have more experience. 

when i make test batch at home 100-200 i do stick blender and cool down by hand, 300-1000 i do overhead stirrer. if the formulae is too complicated or need a homogenizer i hand it over to professional formulator. 

this sounds like it might be the way to go. which stick blender do you use?

[domicanica]

Graillotion said:

Take a look at this one:
https://www.katom.com/048-MX07015.html

The beauty of this one…is that it has the biggest range of speeds…infinite adjustment from 0 rpm to 13,000 rpm…..so it can both emulsify and stir, unlike the cheapies on Amazon….which the lowest speed is well beyond the realm of stirring.
Very heavy duty and high quality.

Regarding which is more important… emulsifier vs stirrer….I think this question can only be answered based on which emulsifiers you intend on using!

Note…I have the above machine…and could not be more tickled with it….after burning through 3 of the Amazon types…hehehe.

the dynamic mini pro? yes i was looking at this one as a “starter” for now, thanks for the rec and review!!!

emulsifier vs stirrer depends on which emulsifier i want to use and thats because some ingredients just don’t stand up to high shear mixing which is what the emulsifier would do right?

[domicanica]

Sponge said:

You definitely want a stirrer before a homogenizer. You’d have to tell us what you intend to make before us being able to recommend a homogenizer or not. 

Sorry, I’m not help with equipment suppliers. 

I’ll be making body wash and body lotions, thought I put that in the post sorry