[Derya]

thank you I will look up Lincoln Fine ingredients for a co preservative.

How would you do a hurdle technology on baby wipes?  

recently a friend bought a baby wipe company at an incredibly good price and asked me to do market research for her.  Her company ethos is organic and natural. The brand she purchased utilises Potassium sorbate,  sodium benzoate as preservatives. Unfortunately the bloggers have a lot of sway in how & what parents buy. The silver citrate as an ingredient doesn’t get a bad wrap but sodium benzoate does. 

I then got excited about the silver citrate and thought could it be a preservative for the Rose water I get from an Iranian shop. The rose water smells divine with no preservative but the process of pasteurisation. Cost is low as opposed to rosewater sold for making cosmetics with nowhere near the great scent of the Iranian rose water.

From memory, I think it was in one of your posts Mark Broussard that you were saying Rose water doesn’t need preserving because its self preserving due to its natural phenethyl alcohol content.  What to do with such a lovely smelling hydrosol?  Unsure of any possible bacterial load …………….. do I add silver citrate and more phenethyl alcohol to preserve it.  Or treat is as a juice and add Potassium sorbate,  sodium benzoate, citric acid as preservatives? AND THEN FORMULATE??????? Upon opening adding preservatives months after manufacture of the rosewater that is pasturised,  is that a good idea?? or should it be done at the time of manufacture? And when one is using such a hydrosol and makes a lotion with it and then adds the appropriate preservative for the lotion is that likely to be adequately preserved?   Thanks for sharing experience and knowledge. 

[Derya]

Thanks Perry for the forum and the comment. Is there a marketing strategy book that covers more of the above that you would recommend?

Regards

[Derya]

thanks for shedding some light on the subject. I don’t know much about silicone chemistry
Belassi had a Post named “D4 D5 restrictions”. quoting him

 “Time to stop using cyclopentasiloxane. (You should have already stopped using cyclotetrasiloxane since it is a reprotoxin.)”
UL Prospector. 

are elasomers / film formers pertaining to what Belassi has posted? Hope he is OK in Mexico with the earth quakes.

If I was to apply an elasomer to my hair line around the nape of my neck would it be thick and sticky, would it make my hair look sticky? would it be safe for use on kids and pets? Is there a trade name/s I can look up?  

[Derya]

Thanks for all the responses.

As far as I know Hops is oestrogenic which has positive effect on skin health,  has anti- inflammatory properties and I think you are right Mark Broussard.

After I posted this topic I found out about ulprospector.com and researched hops containing preservatives, yes it seems a preservative booster sorry to disagree Dr Bob but I don’t think it is a gilded lilly.

Moogoo have utilised hops from the beginning.

Would a new company really waste cash and put in a raw material in their product that is relatively unknown in the marketplace for marketing hype?

If they wanted marketing hype could they not have used echinacea for e.g., which was a vogue herb at the time with antimicrobial and anti fungal properties as far as what people were aware of. 

How effective is marketing hype around an ingredient in a company that is making a debut into the market? Really interested to know now that the topic is raised.

Even though it maybe a preservative booster has anyone used a hops extract for preservative purposes? Is it like a whole plant extract that is used for preservation or just an extract of an active principle in the plant? Do you know another company that may be using hops for its preservative functions?

Thanks to anyone who might add more.

.

[Derya]

Dear Bobzchemist been reading about invisible glove and organo-silicones.

 Is sodium silicate one of the things you are referring to as a penetration blocker.

 Wondering what sodium silicate would do to my hair and scalp if applied, I’ve ended up with this website: 

https://synapse.koreamed.org/Synapse/Data/PDFData/0169LAR/lar-26-55.pdf    

Wooohooo added bonus will make my hair grow!!!!

Having difficulty with late  night can’t fully grasp organo silicone chemistry at the moment. Sorry to ask a simple question is sodium silicate an organo silicate? Whilst I want to deter fleas ticks etc bit concerned about the effect on bees though.

Organosilicon compounds affect bee (and other insect) immune expression, making them more susceptible to viral infection.[5][23] wikipedia

Just wondering when I wash out sodium silicate does it degrade in the environment?

Thanks

[Derya]

BIOEXTRACTLUPULO HG

Aqia

INCI Name: Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract

BIOEXTRACT LUPULO HG is an ocher liquid with a suave, characteristic odor. It is useful in anti-age creams and lotions. Also recommended in formulations to prevent baldness.

[Derya]

Thanks Dr Bob when I click the link it says page not found and when I do a search on hyaluronic acid there are more than 180 pages of research article entries on website could you give me the heading of the article please?

Micro formulation it was tongue and cheek back about your neighbours cat or did I get the wrong person. Whoops!

[Derya]

I have been reading other threads and entering into your world of knowledge with great delight thanks for the privilege everyone.

Bobzchemist you’re a wealth of info.

To answer your question  Dr Bob I would want a blocker I guess for this project. I didn’t choose my words correctly. However for future projects knowledge in retardants is also incredibly valuable, could I use hyaluronic acid as a medium for a slow release active effect for an essential oil that I would want going into the body?.

I will research into silicones and organo- silicones as well as hyaluronic acid on my days off. I had a very brief look at how silicones are produced but haven’t come to the blocking effect yet. At this point I don’t know much the difference between organo- silicones and silicones. I have 50 cs silicone and have 100cs silicone would any of these do? I seem to remember a thread on a siloxane having a carcinogenic effect. 

Micro formulation the vet community sends you a big fat kiss!!

[Derya]

A BIG Thank you, I will look into it.

[Derya]

Thanks so much for your opinions, time you’ve taken to share your experience and knowledge Mark. Yes in researching the internet I went round and round in circles trying to find a preservative that does no harm. There is a lot of talking heads with  chemophobia as you put it and I’m trying hard to not be one of them. I’m trying to sift through the BS. However marketing bias is a reality and as you put it in an earlier post (and I love the quote)  “The client is not always right, but the client is always the client.”

For the last 20 years working as a naturopath in a pharmacy setting I have been mixing into a base cream natural actives, for my clients with great success in results.  One day I decided I would rather go into manufacturing my own products. So began the research into cosmetic science. The more I researched the more I realised how much I don’t know. Hence I am here to be aware of what I need to be aware of until my circumstances are such that I can bring a product to market.

Sooner or later I will need a cosmetic chemist, right now I’m enjoying the learning and the challenges that this brings.

And Mark I am somewhat interested in Phenoxyethanol based preservatives as that is what the base cream that I was using is preserved with however the following link states that there are concerns with carcinogenic activity which leaves me uncomfortable.

http://microchemlab.com/five_most_common_types_of_preservatives_used_in_cosmetics       .

Staying on Silver Citrate, could I use piroctone olamine an anti fungal with silver citrate? Would these react with each other and render each other useless or could they potentiate each others actions? Once again I’m not a chemist but love to understand.

Could anyone direct me where i can find more info on co-preservatives to use with silver citrate or share more of your experiences.

Thanks in advance

[Derya]

I don’t know if this is useful to you but I used to work in a compounding pharmacy where the chemist manufactured hormonal pessaries and wrapped them in an aluminium like foil all by hand and then kept them in the fridge.

Why don’t you look at the packages of constipation suppositories and get in touch with the companies to get the lab details of where they are manufactured?

[Derya]

thanks Mark Fuller, when you say

“If you are trying to meet a natural standard or avoid certain products due to market bias, there is a huge number of candidates I would consider before this product. ”  

What are the candidates that you would consider? 

“The products failed challenge testing and failed stability as the Silver discolored into the second 28-day cycle. They had me fix the entire line.”   

When the products failed challenge testing in what way did they fail? Mould? type of bacteria…? Could you elaborate? How did they discolor did they go blue? What was the nature of the products you were making lotions? creams?
How did you fix the entire line?

Eventually I’d like to make a low viscosity lotion that carries the alcohol based herbal actives. 

Personally after a few years of researching cosmetic ingredients and  reading the ingredients lists of countless items Silver citrate showed some interest to me as a preservative because it is likely to be not absorbed into the users body, not have any ill effect on contact and not likely to cause environmental toxicity.  

when I did the research on baby wipes, some wipes claimed to be compostable I wondered what the silver citrate does to the beneficial bacteria in soils. 

I did see a claim made about nanoparticle silver being of danger to fish and that nano silver has been found in animal organs. I don’t know how true this is.

 

[Derya]

You could use alcohol. That’s what the wildcrafting herbalists use. 

[Derya]

caprylyl glycol, sorbic acid/potassium sorbate, levulinic acid, anisic acid, could any of these be added to fortify silver citrate. I’m not a chemist but love pushing myself to understand. I’m fascinated.

[Derya]

Thanks for the info heraklit, There are also  other companies that use silver citrate and have not had problems, however I can’t ignore the honest company experience. Maybe their silver citrate was exposed to light??

Does that mean Silver dihydrogen citrate is more effective?

Thanks ozgirl, the info about light sensitivity is very helpful

DrBob Thank you, for suggestions Benzoic acid/Benzy alcohol. Did you recommend that for further preserving pasteurised rosewater?.

 I can’t help but think maybe silver citrate could be mixed with another preservative/s to improve effectivity? Would love to know. 

Not that I want to make baby wipes however silver citrate looked attractive as a preservative for a lotion. 

[Derya]

Which Biocides are you thinking about DAS?

[Derya]

Thanks heaps for comments,

I’ve just learned so much more and I am grateful. I’m aware of toxicity issues and that is why I posted the question.  There is no way I would risk my pets wellbeing, My dogs’ ears have the bites inside ear flap with allergic reaction. I was thinking of putting it on his long hair,  around the ears not near the skin + where he can’t lick. I asked the question to reduce any chance of it being absorbed through the skin.  As a naturopath I had a vague I idea that Pennyroyal was a flee deterrent with possible toxicity issues. I WILL NOT USE PENNYROYAL

I am still interested in penetration retardants though as a subject, theres so much info on penetration enhancers but not on retardants. Even so I live in a tick rich environment in Australia where lyme disease isn’t recognised but there is a lyme like something going around. When the tick is in the nymph stage it gets carried about in the wind. On such a day I have ended up with one on my eyelid in the lash line. I would like to make an essential oil deterrent and put it on my hair near my scalp with a penetration retardant can any one help? Cant wear hats all the time.

Thanks so much

[Derya]

Thanks for the response, however I would like to use about 1.5% I think it would be more effective if I could stop or lower the % of the oil from penetrating through skin.

[Derya]

durosoft theres 2 types

[Derya]

decyl glucoside

[Derya]

I have added herbal extracts in alcohol to a base cream without any problems. Which glycetracts are you looking for? I may be able to help with a supplier.

[Derya]

The country I come from sometimes they use sulfur soap.

[Derya]

Bioforce / Dr Vogel a Swiss company used to have a product made from Onion juice for hair loss. I don’t know if the product is still around.

[Derya]

onion juice. 

[Derya]

Hi 
My first post in this forum, does dimethicone 50cs have the same repro-toxicity issues or any other toxicity for that matter?
Thanks in advance