Looking for a penetration retardantPosted by Derya on September 11, 2017 at 4:00 pm
I would like to experiment with pennyroyal oil as anti flea spray on my dog especially around ears as he reacts badly to bites. Given that the oil can be toxic I am wondering if anyone knows of a penetration retardant I can add to my spray of coconut oil with the 1.5% pennyroyal oil.
MemberSeptember 13, 2017 at 1:43 am
Simply reduce the concentration of pennyroyal oil, use 0.5% instead of 1.5%.
MemberSeptember 13, 2017 at 2:38 am
Thanks for the response, however I would like to use about 1.5% I think it would be more effective if I could stop or lower the % of the oil from penetrating through skin.
MemberSeptember 13, 2017 at 6:39 am
I wouldn’t use pennyroyal at all. Please don’t be fooled by it being a ‘natural’ insect repellent. The strongest toxins come from mother nature (like for example yew-tree and periwinkle in chemotherapeutics.)
The skin barrier of your dog is already damaged (wounds) so absorption will be even higher.
The only way to stop the toxin from being absorbed is by simply not using the toxin. Experimenting with strong toxins is playing with fire, please don’t put your dog’s life at risk.
I hope you will choose a researched and safe method to help your dog with this, good luck!
MemberSeptember 13, 2017 at 1:41 pm
@Doreen81Makes a great point about the skin barrier in dogs. It can be significantly less robust in vet settings and care must be taken.
@zaidjeber also makes a great point which I would heed. In Pharmacokinetics (the calculus-based discipline of identifying and controlling absorption across permeable biological membranes) one of the most controllable areas to reduce absorption is by decreasing the primary concentration (or gradient across the membrane) by decreasing the amount of active.
Penetration across a membrane can be presented in a manner similar to osmotic gradients, where the body seeks to maintain equilibrium under homeostasis. The more electrolyte on one side of the barrier, the larger the osmotic force of water becomes in the attempt to equalize the concentrations. A similar analogous condition exists in Pharmacokinetics.
You will be unlikely to find a lasting and effective penetration inhibitor especially in the disparate skin barriers in vet settings. The real opportunity here is in decreasing the level, hence as seen above decreasing the penetration. As @Doreen81 points out, if this can’t be accomplished in such a manner to maintain performance while decreasing toxicity, your active is not an option.
MemberSeptember 13, 2017 at 2:10 pm
I have to add my voice to the chorus here - why would you ever use something on your dog that could kill it if you make a formulation mistake? How would it make you feel if that happened?
There are plenty of safe, thoroughly tested, synthetic flea repellents already on the market. Please, please use one of them, and don’t put your dog’s life at risk.
MemberSeptember 14, 2017 at 2:36 am
I forget to mention that dog’s skin is very sensitive and different from human skin as it has less keratinized epidermis compare to human epidermis and the epidermis turnover cycle in dog is about “20 days” compare to “28 days” for human epidermis.
That is why pet’s grooming aid products “pet’s personal care products” are very gentle when it comes to formulation.
MemberSeptember 14, 2017 at 7:42 pm
Thanks heaps for comments,
I’ve just learned so much more and I am grateful. I’m aware of toxicity issues and that is why I posted the question. There is no way I would risk my pets wellbeing, My dogs’ ears have the bites inside ear flap with allergic reaction. I was thinking of putting it on his long hair, around the ears not near the skin + where he can’t lick. I asked the question to reduce any chance of it being absorbed through the skin. As a naturopath I had a vague I idea that Pennyroyal was a flee deterrent with possible toxicity issues. I WILL NOT USE PENNYROYAL
I am still interested in penetration retardants though as a subject, theres so much info on penetration enhancers but not on retardants. Even so I live in a tick rich environment in Australia where lyme disease isn’t recognised but there is a lyme like something going around. When the tick is in the nymph stage it gets carried about in the wind. On such a day I have ended up with one on my eyelid in the lash line. I would like to make an essential oil deterrent and put it on my hair near my scalp with a penetration retardant can any one help? Cant wear hats all the time.
Thanks so much
MemberSeptember 18, 2017 at 3:36 am
Research Hyaluronic Acid
MemberSeptember 18, 2017 at 1:21 pm
A BIG Thank you, I will look into it.
MemberSeptember 18, 2017 at 3:27 pm
Silicones and organo-silicones are the ultimate penetration blockers/retardants. See “invisible glove”, etc.
MemberSeptember 18, 2017 at 10:03 pm
Silicones are blockersbut think you want retardant?
MemberSeptember 19, 2017 at 10:58 pm
I have been reading other threads and entering into your world of knowledge with great delight thanks for the privilege everyone.
Bobzchemist you’re a wealth of info.
To answer your question Dr Bob I would want a blocker I guess for this project. I didn’t choose my words correctly. However for future projects knowledge in retardants is also incredibly valuable, could I use hyaluronic acid as a medium for a slow release active effect for an essential oil that I would want going into the body?.
I will research into silicones and organo- silicones as well as hyaluronic acid on my days off. I had a very brief look at how silicones are produced but haven’t come to the blocking effect yet. At this point I don’t know much the difference between organo- silicones and silicones. I have 50 cs silicone and have 100cs silicone would any of these do? I seem to remember a thread on a siloxane having a carcinogenic effect.
Micro formulation the vet community sends you a big fat kiss!!
MemberSeptember 20, 2017 at 3:48 am
Micro formulation the vet community sends you a big fat kiss!!
Err, what? It is late. What did I miss?
MemberSeptember 20, 2017 at 3:16 pm
@Derya Hyaluroic acid has been used transdermal in drug delivery so the answer is a theoretical yes.http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-3083.2004.01180.x/full
MemberSeptember 21, 2017 at 8:50 am
Thanks Dr Bob when I click the link it says page not found and when I do a search on hyaluronic acid there are more than 180 pages of research article entries on website could you give me the heading of the article please?
Micro formulation it was tongue and cheek back about your neighbours cat or did I get the wrong person. Whoops!
MemberSeptember 21, 2017 at 1:31 pm
Dear Bobzchemist been reading about invisible glove and organo-silicones.
Is sodium silicate one of the things you are referring to as a penetration blocker.
Wondering what sodium silicate would do to my hair and scalp if applied, I’ve ended up with this website:
Wooohooo added bonus will make my hair grow!!!!
Having difficulty with late night can’t fully grasp organo silicone chemistry at the moment. Sorry to ask a simple question is sodium silicate an organo silicate? Whilst I want to deter fleas ticks etc bit concerned about the effect on bees though.
Just wondering when I wash out sodium silicate does it degrade in the environment?
MemberSeptember 21, 2017 at 7:21 pm
@DeryaOk, now I get it!
MemberSeptember 21, 2017 at 9:02 pm
Sodium silicate is an inorganic compound which decomposes environmentally after use.Used mainly as corrosion inhibitor/builder in Laundry Detergents-no comment on hair although I saw the hair growth test on hairless mice.Example of organosilicone would be decmethylcyclopentasiloxane and elastomers based on siloxanes but cannot comment on best blockers which are likely the elasomers/film formers.
MemberSeptember 22, 2017 at 1:55 pmthanks for shedding some light on the subject. I don’t know much about silicone chemistry
Belassi had a Post named “D4 D5 restrictions”. quoting him
“Time to stop using cyclopentasiloxane. (You should have already stopped using cyclotetrasiloxane since it is a reprotoxin.)”
are elasomers / film formers pertaining to what Belassi has posted? Hope he is OK in Mexico with the earth quakes.
If I was to apply an elasomer to my hair line around the nape of my neck would it be thick and sticky, would it make my hair look sticky? would it be safe for use on kids and pets? Is there a trade name/s I can look up?
MemberSeptember 22, 2017 at 2:57 pm
scroll down and see DC elastomers and pick and choose.
MemberSeptember 22, 2017 at 4:06 pm
THANKS. think I got a bit of reading to do this weekend.
Really appreciate your help.
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