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Would a Chelator be an option?

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There’s a lot of people that would not buy a cheap bottle of shampoo because it must be terrible if it is so cheap.

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I tried 1% and it dried nice in hair but after moving around a little it started to flake and look dusty. I will move on to 2% next.

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All great replies, thank you.

I will try a low temp pour and slow cooling to see if that helps.

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This is from Homedepot brand fog fluid SDS:

This product is a filtered blend of ingredients regularly used by the food and cosmetics industry. Main component of the product is water. This material is not considered to be hazardous according
to regulatory guidelines.

So they don’t list anything.

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@PhilGeis Thanks for your help. I am using distilled water.

I was also looking into BAK because of its popular known use pharma.

Anything natural you would recommend specifically to target mold growth?

Does the MSDS have to list the preservative, I only ask because of all I have looked at I don’t see any listed, its usually just Glycerol, PG, TG, combo at less than 40%

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Yes, the glycerol at 30% will lower the WA some but I just need that extra push to give it some protection for a 12mo shelf life.

These machines have a thin copper tube,  so I don’t want anything that would clog or buildup. There is a small pump that pushes fluid through the tube, it passes an area that has a heated casting around the tube which then produces the steam/ fog effect instantly. 

I was thinking something simple like, alcohol, potassium sorbate, citric acid, etc. 

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Mainly special effects fog, like for halloween

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Abdullah said:

Reducing the pH to 4.7 helps a lot if you are not using good preservatives. 

This reminds me of hot sauce, with a low ph it can pretty much sit opened in a cabinet for a year or so.

Food Safety Controls of Hot Sauce

Therefore, the pH of the hot sauce must be less than 4.6 and an acid, such as vinegar, should be added to ensure that the pH is below 4.6, as clostridium botulinum cannot grow in a pH less than 4.6.

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MarkBroussard said:

@Dazed

Phenethyl Alcohol (1%) + Pentylene Glycol (2%) + Geogard Ultra (1%)

I do like the dual purpose (scent) of the Phenethyl Alcohol

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MarkBroussard said:

@Dazed

Are you specifically formulating to Whole Foods standards or any other standard?  Your channel distribution strategy may affect your preservative options that are acceptable unless you are going DTC.

You could consider:  Phenethyl Alcohol + Pentylene Glycol + Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate 

Yes, I would like to try to follow the whole foods standards when possible, as well I cross check with EWG, etc.

I do feel PE9010 at (1%) might be too much since it’s the max range for leave on.

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PhilGeis said:

Bunch of secondary preservatives.  Suggest you go for efficacy and consumer protection rather than politically correct standards.

I agree, I’m just trying to find line where those two meet without overloading products with questionable chemicals.

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Graillotion said:

Dazed said:

 I think Phenoxyethanol is out.

Well…then you really don’t have a preservative….just a couple supporting legs!  Always make a safe product first….and worry about the loonies later.

Yeah, I don’t know. I see it in nearly every serum, paula’s choice, etc.

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What about a non-compete clause or what if they sell their 30% to another party a few years from now, a few things to consider, partnerships are unpredictable.

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 I think Phenoxyethanol is out.

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Perry said:

@PhilGeis - yes, of course. I just had the sense that phenoxyethanol was on the outs with the natural crowd.

Haha, yes, I certainly don’t want to include anything on the outs with the natural crowd!

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MarkBroussard said:

@Dazed:

PE9010 + Sodium Benzoate + Pentylene Glycol + pH < 5.5 should do the trick for you. 

Thank you, do you think it could pass without the Pentylene Glycol? I’m trying to limit to 3 preservatives if possible. What would you recommend is a good starting point on the percentages? End use is in a 8oz pump so it could be used all over the body.

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PhilGeis said:

@Dazed
Think both are prob ok - with Sodium benzoate rather than Benzoic acid.   I prefer the 1st as I’ve seen more stability issues with sorbate.

No sure what natural leaning means - what would be the claim?

Thanks, I guess what I think of as “natural leaning” would be something derived from a coconut or similar, or something not banned from wholefoods list. 1 Rated on EWG.

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Target pH would be 5. The goal for this version is to make the purest form of H/A and possibly something better then whats available. So Water, H/A, preservative.

Whats available:
Product 1: Distilled Water (Aqua), Hyaluronic Acid (Sodium Hyaluronate), Contains less than 2% of Phenoxyethanol, Benzoic Acid, Dehydroacetic Acid.

Product 2:Distilled Water, Glycerin, Hyaluronic Acid, Phenoxyethanol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Citric Acid, Potassium Sorbate

I lean towards product 2 just because I think the LOI is more friendly to the average customer reading it. Although the Glycerin might read as a filler in a “pure” H/A product. 

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Fekher said:

@Dazed all ingredients listed can help however it is really waste using EO for shoes. 

Maybe, but there are many very highly rated with EO, I’m just trying to give the customer what they like and are looking for.

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As long as it’s truly dry you do not need to do anything, clay, spices, herbs.

Sodium benzoate is mostly used in liquid foods.

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There’s many ways. Although TicTok seems to be a hot spot for some products becoming overnight success. Some of that comes down to luck or simply paying to get your product in those videos. Then there’s all the other social media, it’s mostly pay to play. Your best bet might be a “highly targeted ad” through facebook or google.

Think of it this way, there are great products that don’t sell and really crap products that sell a lot. The difference in sales comes down to branding and marketing.

In the end really you have to try a little bit of everything and experiment.

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Hi Everyone, My name is Christian, I am from the US. I’m a formulator constantly learning, I have a small lab to formulate and some production equipment. While not reading ingredient lists, I am working on graphic design and other ideas. I like honest, clean formulas and I lean towards minimal ingredient lists. Looking forward to learning more and sharing ideas.

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Yes, but the salt is the main component of the system, too low and it looses volume/effect. Any other ideas how to keep the salt from crystalizing into dust?

The more glycerin I add the more it becomes greasy/ shiny. I am at 3% now.

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All great replies, thank you.

All the extracts out? Is there any you would recommend to add?