Climatechangeanxiety
Forum Replies Created
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So in addition to the .1% KSorbate, they use Glycerin & Citric Acid & Lactic Acid & Ascorbic Acid 1.0% as the additional preservative. I know you said organic acids might not make sense but altogether, this is the hurdle tech they recommend. It’s a pretty big supplier! Screw off top * packed out warm
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It’s going to be heated process and plastic bottle.
Here’s a formula that a supplier provided which I modelled mine after but they mention only using Potassium Sorbate as the only preservative. How is that possibly adequate?A Deionized Water Water 85.9 %
Cetyl Alcohol + Behentrimonium Chloride +
Sorbitan Laurate
6.0%Coconut Oil Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil 3.0%
Grapeseed Oil Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil 2
% DL Panthenol Panthenol 0.1%
Mixed Tocopherols
95
Tocopherol 0.1 %
Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein 1.5%
Glycerin & Citric Acid & Lactic
Acid & Ascorbic Acid
1.0%
Potassium Sorbate Potassium Sorbate 0.1%NaOH adjust pH to 4.5 – 5.5
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@PhilGeis PH 5.5 for the conditioner.
Hi Phil! I’m thrilled you actually responded! I thought it might be a long shot haha.
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@PhilGeis I would love to summon your expertise, if possible! You were super helpful with all the shampoo formulations! Thank you in advance.
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@MarkBroussard
Not to hijack the thread but Mark, I am trying to get in touch with you and would like to see if you offer formulation feedback services. I have one that needs a quick glance. Thank you -
hi! Yes it is a solid product. I know people say solid products don’t need preservatives but I mean…I’m got a lot of guar gum in mine…
I actually don’t understand why people say bars don’t need preservatives?? That stuff gets wet all the time!
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agree. I was just wondering, anyway. Also just curious..I notice this red bacteria ‘spore’ only grows on metallic surfaces…but when i put the guar gum in a plastic box or glass jar..( all exposed to moisture) it doesn’t seem to grow ..or atleast it’s not visible to the eye. Why is that? Is there something about the metallic surface? Is this what the chemists are saying about using a chelator so that it eliminates metal/ions that feed fuel to the bacteria?
Just curious
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oh wonderful! There goes 5 lbs of guar gum! better to chuck it all and be safe than sorry! Thanks Perry, as always, for enlightening us :smiley:
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@PhilGeis is it bad that i have 33% guar gum in my dry / solid formula?
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@Pharma but I really love having pink bath tiles! Kidding, I am disinfecting away
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@RedCoast the refs are super helpful - thank you!
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@PhilGeis. i think it’s Serratia marcescens. It’s all over the bath tile but not in the shampoo itself
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@MarkBroussard potassium sorbate was the culprit after all. some others didn’t report a reaction it tho…but it made me burn all over. Why are some like myself so sensitive to it? Is it a certain skin type? Does anyone know?
Thank you all!
btw there is pink bacteria growing on my bath tile..this is the thing im trying to preserve against as i read is airborne
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thank you! but it’s left in a warm, moist shower after use..water will inevitably touch it. Bacteria will inevitably grow because I have xanthan gum in my formula. Could I use 0.05% of benzyl alcohol +DHA against bacteria?
I’ll def use Ksorbate against mold.
TIA
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@Pharma gotcha! even coco betaine (with water as part of it) helps with preservation?
just a bit confusing because some others here have said “if you want to boost preservative, reduce your surfactants, powders, starches, proteins, etc.”
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@PhilGeis i can’t, as i order from repackers. i sniffed my Benzyl Alcohol-DHA from the bottle today. It smells strongly of that almond-marzipan odor that people talk about. if it has oxidized into benzaldehyde, is that…bad? harmful?
the internet says benzaldehyde is even a “food additive.” but who trusts the internet these days..
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my benzyl alcohol DHA blend has an AWFUL smell. very strong and a couple droplets of EO cant cover it up
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it smells herbal, like medicine, and is quite strong. @PhilGeis
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@DAS gotcha..i’m just a hobbyist for now so I don’t have a industry-standard manufacturing process. I’ll add the preservatives after cooldown, but for the ‘heated phase’ was just wondering if adding boiling water to my surfactants will do any bad.
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@PhilGeis if i were to add boiling water to sodium benzoate, would this render the preservative less effective? or even help turn it into benzene in the presence of citric acid? (no ascorbic acid in my mix).
i dont see a temperature limit for sodium benzoate nor benzyl alcohol in my google searches…please correct me if im wrong@Abdullah may i ask how glyceryl caprylate helps in preservation? are you suggesting this in addition to the other preservatives or as the sole ones? thank you!
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@PhilGeis I must say the Benzyl Alcohol has the most medicinal smell..it’s really just bad and I have no idea how to cover it up. (I don’t want to use fragrance..maybe some essential oil but not too much as it potentially irritates)
Also considering leaving out the benzyl and just doing a combination of: Aquaguard9093
NaBenzoate + Sodium Dehydroacetate + ChelatorWhat do you think of this at a 4.5 PH? It looks to be good against yeast.fungi/gram positive bacteria but poor on gram negativve bacteria?
Thank you so much in advance!
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@Pharma What do you think? I remember you were also super helpful on another discussion about preservatives. May I call on you again for your expertise?
My question is in a shampoo formula (see above) which contains a mix of ionicities (including nonionic surfactant)+guar gum+cationic guar gum, would it be ok to:
A. use Potassium Sorbate/Benzoate + Phytate as preservative system?
B. Or should I use BenzylAlcohol+DHA and Potassium Sorbate?Or does the nonionic lauryl. gluucoside interfere/inactivate efficacy?
PH 4.5-5
Thank you all!
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I’m trying to stick with only the ‘natural’ ones.. so plant-based, salts, BenzylAlcohol+DHA. I see a competitor using plantapon..and potassium sorbate + Phenoxyethanol. Are there any other alternatives to phenoxyethanol? I don’t have that one on hand.
the only ones i have on hand right now: (would like to try and use them and avoid buying others if possible)?
Benzyl Alcohol + DHA
Potassium Sorbate
Sodium Benzoate
Sodium Phytate
Thank you in advance @PhilGeis you’ve been so helpful! -
@PhilGeis. it’s shampoo, plastic bottle, PH 4.5-5.
Does the lauryl gluucoside not inactivate the benzy alcohol / sodiuum benzoate? Or can I get away with it as it is a shampoo mix of diffferent ionicities?
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@Cafe33 that’s nuts! I had no idea big companies could get away with not listing all ingredients, or listing in wrong order!