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Preservatives for Plantapon SF (nonionic/anionic/amphoteric)
Hi - What are the best salt-based preservatives for Plantapon SF? (Sodium Cocoamphoacetate (and) Glycerin (and) Lauryl Glucoside (and) Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate (and) Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate)
Would these 2 below (+chelator) will be sufficient? I read that Sodium Benzoate is incompatible with nonionic surfactants, but Plantapon is a mix with not just lauryl glucoside but also other anionics/amphoterics.
Potassium Sorbate 0.2%
Sodium Benzoate 0.4%
Sodium Phytate 0.2%Or could I even get away with using Benzyl Alcohol-DHA (from MakingCosmetics) + Potassium Sorbate?
Thank you in advance.
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21 Replies
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Benzoate and sorbate are not very robuist even at favorable pH - what is your pH? Prefer benzoate and benzyl alcohol and chelator as a combination but not so much in anything that might get diluted - e.g. shampoo, conditioner. What is the product type and packaging?
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@PhilGeis. it’s shampoo, plastic bottle, PH 4.5-5.
Does the lauryl gluucoside not inactivate the benzy alcohol / sodiuum benzoate? Or can I get away with it as it is a shampoo mix of diffferent ionicities?
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What is your preservaitve “policy” - what will you not use?
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I’m trying to stick with only the ‘natural’ ones.. so plant-based, salts, BenzylAlcohol+DHA. I see a competitor using plantapon..and potassium sorbate + Phenoxyethanol. Are there any other alternatives to phenoxyethanol? I don’t have that one on hand.
the only ones i have on hand right now: (would like to try and use them and avoid buying others if possible)?
Benzyl Alcohol + DHA
Potassium Sorbate
Sodium Benzoate
Sodium Phytate
Thank you in advance @PhilGeis you’ve been so helpful! -
@Pharma What do you think? I remember you were also super helpful on another discussion about preservatives. May I call on you again for your expertise?
My question is in a shampoo formula (see above) which contains a mix of ionicities (including nonionic surfactant)+guar gum+cationic guar gum, would it be ok to:
A. use Potassium Sorbate/Benzoate + Phytate as preservative system?
B. Or should I use BenzylAlcohol+DHA and Potassium Sorbate?Or does the nonionic lauryl. gluucoside interfere/inactivate efficacy?
PH 4.5-5
Thank you all!
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Think I’d forget DHA. Too much of a contrivance that it;s “natural.” That carries Ecocert BS too far.
Try Benzyl alcohol (min 0.5)/Na Benzoate (min 0.25)/Chelator. In the presence of surfactants, benzoate activity is extended to a higher pH- that is not the case with sorbate. Think you’ll also have better stability with benzoate.
Nonioncs can impact benzoate but PET (CTFA) to determine/confirm efficacy. And pick a good package orifice, that system will not support much dilution. -
@PhilGeis I must say the Benzyl Alcohol has the most medicinal smell..it’s really just bad and I have no idea how to cover it up. (I don’t want to use fragrance..maybe some essential oil but not too much as it potentially irritates)
Also considering leaving out the benzyl and just doing a combination of: Aquaguard9093
NaBenzoate + Sodium Dehydroacetate + ChelatorWhat do you think of this at a 4.5 PH? It looks to be good against yeast.fungi/gram positive bacteria but poor on gram negativve bacteria?
Thank you so much in advance!
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As you suggested, aquagaurd 9093 system is weak in its design even with happy <51> data. Shampoo contaimination is almost always Gram negative and as you noted the acid system is weak v. Gran neg’s. MIC data are pretty useless - we want to kill not just discourage.
Right - there is that odor. Still need something for the Gram neg’s and Ecocert doesn’t offer other options. Could you drop the level? I’d not go less than 0.25 - benzoate/surfactant and benzyl alcohol/benzoate interactions some describe as synergistic may be enough.
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Use %1 glyceryl caprylate, %0.1 caprylhydroxamic acid, %0.1 EDTA or other chelating agent.
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@PhilGeis may i ask why you don’t like DHA?
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I am familiar with surfactant and benzyl alcohol interactions to greater efficacy. Above discusses shampoo application constrained to Ecocert .
Don’t see any of the organic acids as primary preservatives - DHA is the least compatible with primary that I’d use (isothiazolinones/ FA-releasers).
General concerns for stability.Maybe cost but it’s been too long since I’ve needed to compare.
Above has limited aplications of DHA for which I’ve been respoinsible to some color cosmetics.
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@PhilGeis if i were to add boiling water to sodium benzoate, would this render the preservative less effective? or even help turn it into benzene in the presence of citric acid? (no ascorbic acid in my mix).
i dont see a temperature limit for sodium benzoate nor benzyl alcohol in my google searches…please correct me if im wrong@Abdullah may i ask how glyceryl caprylate helps in preservation? are you suggesting this in addition to the other preservatives or as the sole ones? thank you!
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I’m not sure re .boiling water. Why?
Agree with the EDTA, but Glyceryl caprylate and a hydoxyamic acid are not enough - esp. for a shampoo. The former is weak and the latter binds iron and is ok v. fungi. No way can it compete with pseudomonad siderophores.
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Climate - can you describe the odor you perceive with Benzyl alcohol ?
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it smells herbal, like medicine, and is quite strong. @PhilGeis
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can oxidize to form benzaldehyde, esp with light exposure - sort of an almond odor. But prob not as you’ve just formulated. Still some folks use tocopherol as antioxidant. Prob not
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We use BA up to 0.5 to 1% in our so many pharma cream. not found any bed smell.
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my benzyl alcohol DHA blend has an AWFUL smell. very strong and a couple droplets of EO cant cover it up
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Can you get Benzyl alcohol by itself?
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@PhilGeis i can’t, as i order from repackers. i sniffed my Benzyl Alcohol-DHA from the bottle today. It smells strongly of that almond-marzipan odor that people talk about. if it has oxidized into benzaldehyde, is that…bad? harmful?
the internet says benzaldehyde is even a “food additive.” but who trusts the internet these days..
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Benzaldehyde is not an effective preservative. Can you complain to your supplier for selling you this stuff?
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