[Chemist77]

@Bill great explanation

[Chemist77]

use veegum HV and sodium cmc, best combo for a regular pigmented o/w emulsion.

[Chemist77]

Thanks David

[Chemist77]

@David is there any issue if CAPB is preserved with formaldehyde donor preservative like DMDM or Quaternium-15??

[Chemist77]

@tonyh Apologies if I offended by my choice of words.

[Chemist77]

@Perry Well if natural is so beloved then stay with the natural color, why change it Am I right Perry?

[Chemist77]

That might be one of the factors too, check the TDS to check the optimum pH for ferrocyanide.

[Chemist77]

Guess Perry’s proposal is applicable in terms of cost, hexylene glycol is a costly affair but no harm in trying. Next time though he should be careful with his conc mix because PEG 150 stearate makes it viscous like jell-o.

[Chemist77]

@becksbarrow ditto we used to do in our lab for pigment grinding and it worked great, never had any specks, and ditto for weighing of pigments. In fact for a normal o/w emulsion too we used to weigh a bit extra of oil phase to compensate,

[Chemist77]

well pretty clear that your blue ferrocyanide aint stable at higher temperatures, either use a different grade or a color stabilizing agent.

[Chemist77]

@Bobz vjay is talking about w/o emulsion, I guess it would be viscosity that will hold the emulsion. But still very unsure about the nature of formula so its kind of dilemma to make any comment. But if he is using Abils and related coemulsifiers then he should use coated pigments, sodium chloride would be the thickener for me in this kind of formula. Again pure speculation as not sure what vjays formula is.

[Chemist77]

@ALGAR wow now that sounds interesting, though I hope it’s not the case.

[Chemist77]

Vjay depends what your formula is, if you look at foundation creams and makeups they too have high quantity of pigments without separation. Be a bit more clear on formulation part and you might get right advice here.

[Chemist77]

@lab pH adjustment is at the end of the process generally so yes it has to be added last.

[Chemist77]

I remember using Indopol H for my formula, you have to heat it up so that the dispersion is uniform and throughout. Although I had some ester oils, lanolin anh, petrolatum among other things. The product was absolutely brilliant.

[Chemist77]

As suggested by Bob use pre-milled castor oil dispersions, work fab with HPIB.

[Chemist77]

I guess if your silicone based formula is w/o then you would have to use coated pigments, doubt if normal castor oil pigments would work.

[Chemist77]

@Merit Better google a sulfate free formula and you would have some leads or Dow Chemicals’ Aculyn 22 can be tried, you would have to neutralize it though. But again it cannot take your 2% cetrimonium chloride, either eliminate it or go through literature to find the maximum allowable quantity though I am not very hopeful. Or you could try Carbopol Aqua CC especially designed for cationics and low pH, go through it’s literature to get clear idea. Last but not the least your1% essential oil is not a good cause for high viscosity, try reducing that as well.

[Chemist77]

then the best way is to cut down on salt and check the viscosity.

[Chemist77]

going through the ing list i feel u already have enough oil phase to keep the viscosity low, try increasing the emulsifier and cut down a bit on peg10 dimethicone, dont see much use of it here. Maybe it will bring down the viscosity, as for separation yes it might be incompatibility of oil or less quantity of emulsifier.

[Chemist77]

@attapol Have you considered using coated pigments?? They are preferred in such kind of w/o emulsions.

[Chemist77]

Thank you both, really appreciate it.
@Bobz It is more like mid size operations and for producing any normal bar soap like Fa or Lux targeted for African market. The process starts with soap noodles (bought from Malaysia) of different combinations but definitely no lard or tallow origin.

[Chemist77]

Happy Birthday

[Chemist77]

Mike I suppose that the sodium salt salt has an altogether different function if you go through the papers on it, HEC is going to impart viscosity and since it is a robust thickener the salt will have little effect on its thickening. I think you can use the two together but if you are skeptical then try using a non ionic emulsion if it is indeed an emulsion. If not then stick to HEC or maybe xanthan and see the effect. The pH of 1% salt solution goes beyond 7 so I think indeed you might end up with a viscosity on a higher side with HEC.

[Chemist77]

@Bobz does the addition of water need to be slow and in parts as needed for W/Si emulsion? Because you mentioned homogenization so I am guessing all at once.