chemicalmatt
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I am quite fond of PEFA (polyglyceryl esters of fatty acids) so I find this work commendable. I recommend using a combination of Dehymuls PGPH and Isolan GI 34 for the sweet spot of w/o emulsification. As for stability, be advised that virtually ALL invert emulsion are intrinsically unstable and will display some separation over time unless there is a rheology stabilizer in place for that continuous phase. A high internal water phase helps also, so you may not have any success here. I have w/Si and w/o samples I made 5 - 8 years ago and they are mainly intact but not 100%. I don’t know what oils you are using but those hectorite Bentone Gel mineral stabilizers are the safe bet. Have you tried their Bentone LUXE WO? That is an all-in-one blend of PEFA with hectorite stabilizer. Check it out.
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This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by chemicalmatt.
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This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by
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Yes you may combine the two. That range serves mainly for the sake of solvency not efficacy. Niacinamide (aka: nicotinamide, but nobody likes to call it that) is a tautomer so it does have a hydrogen relocated depending on the solution pH. Now, you ask is neutral pH OK for sensitive skin? Yes, of course it is.
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Sodium metabisulfite is very powerful, you only need to use 0.01% in that formulation, plus being a reducing agent (anti-oxidant) it is working against the SAP activity. That solves the garlic thing and gives better efficacy same time. Cool, huh?
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There are way too many questions here for one post @formuoli so I’ll answer the first one. Coacervation may ONLY occur with an amphoteric/anionic surfactant blend and usually a nonionic builder or hydrotrope is needed too. CAPB and NaCocamphoacetate not working? Try a gemini ampho like disodium cocoamphodiacetate. BTW, multivalent salts do not thicken anything and NaCl will not thicken just any surfactant system either - a common error with newbie formulators in this forum - plus I can think of few mineral salts that will dry out your hair more than MgCl2. DO NOT use that.
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Just to add to @marimaster_3991 comment here: if using triethanolamine be sure to use the 99% not the 85% “freeze protected” grade which has free DEA and unacceptable in the USA. You will get somewhat different hair fixation results using the alkaline hydroxides since AMP, TEA and tromethamine contribute plasticizing to the fixative polymer. Also be advised Glucam E-20 is a solubilizer more than it is a humectant, so combine that in a pre-mix with the Polysorbate 20, Euxyl 9010, and your fragrance for extra gel clarity. Finally, if you need a really clear hair gel and want to save a LOT of money, use Polygel HG from 3V Sigma USA instead of the Carbopol CLEAR stuff. Same exact outcome, much lower cost. (full disclosure: I am the applications director for 3V Sigma USA)
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@pma I agree with Mark and kethcito that concentrations are needed for your benchmark clone project. I’ll agree with Perry that these formulator “consultants” are not very astute especially when they disrespect mineral oil and paraffin. Suspend all of the botanicals and market-trendy add-ons here and you have a basic w/o emulsion that is being hindered with ingredients indicated for o/w emulsions and it does not like that one bit. The “consultants” should have seen that and reformulated accordingly dropping many of these ingredients (do not assume the Shiseido peeps were on the ball either.) The polyglyceryl-3 diisostearate and glyceryl oleate is the primary emulsifier while beeswax/mineral oil/microcrystalline wax/paraffin forms what we call an “absorption base” in cosmetic science parlance, and typically used to stabilize w/o systems. The polyethylene may have been added to hinder syneresis, but that can create “grainy” appearance on its own. DELETE carbomer, PCA, sodium glutamate, lauroyl glutamate, sodium lactate, metabisulfite (why?? when there is tocopherol already there), polysorbate 20, alcohol…virtually any material in the internal (water) phase that has no reason to be there; or at least add at only 0.001%. Always premix those iron oxide pigments into oils or glycerin first (the “grind”) in this case likely that PPG dimethyl ether wetting agent and glycerin/glycols. Any more than this and you will need to pay me…on second thought don’t bother, this subject already pisses me off.
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There is a much simpler & better solution to this: do not use ANY polyol to “pre-mix” xanthan, CMC or any other polymeric gum resin. ALWAYS add resins directly and slowly into water FIRST before adding any other component to it while mixing at high shear for as long as it takes to disperse/hydrate then proceed. A little heating helps too. Where the gum has a high yield value like guar or xanthan, leading to still spots around the edge, just activate the side-sweep agitator on the tank at same time to move that around. If no side-sweep agitator is available recirculate through the pump/transfer line continuously - which you would be doing anyway to prevent plugs, right? If this is a laboratory thing then just employ a spatula around the beaker perimeter. After all my years in this science I still do not understand why so many formulators use that “pre-mix” approach. Please STOP doing that, folks.
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@Nyatou you already HAVE solubilizers in your formula. You need to add that fragrance directly into the CAPB first and mix well, then slowly add the pre-mix into the SLES shampoo while warm (40C). If that doesn’t work, add a PEG ester (e.g. PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate, PEG-40 castor oil) to pre-mix with the CAPB & fragrance. Those will not compromise viscosity or foam.
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…what @ketchito said…why would anyone need a chelant in an oil base? What lipid-soluble metal constructs are a threat and what lipid-soluble ingredient might be compromised? I cannot think of ANY need to use one in a medium like that. Can you elaborate?
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Hi @Abdullah I am still around from time to time. Thank you for citing this source - on behalf of everyone. I had heard about this outfit but never knew if it was for real. Thanks to you and @Graillotion for vetting it. Peace.
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Basically all w/o are not thermodynamically stable but “metastable.” Packaging into PP or HDPE should not affect this too much. The glass wall thing is a mystery to me. I have never seen that but I have seen inversion of w/o emulsions on Tygon transfer hoses, which are silicone based, but only when warm. Must be some tribology effect there we don’t often see? Try cooling the glass jar first to see what happens.
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Yes, you will need to dissolve it in water to use. It dissolves easily in a minimal amount of water. Use at similar level as AMP-95. Love tromethamine, can’t understand why others don’t use it either. The thing with TEA is the free DEA inherent when using the 85% concentration TEA. IF using 99% triethanolamine solution, there is no DEA and very little MEA and the CoA must state so.
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Might be a long shot but have you tried a retail nutritional store? They feature more than one grade of lecithin, 70 - 90% active and usually hydrogenated.
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You do not allow concentrations used here so it is nearly impossible to help you. If there is less than 25% total of those many polar oils I would try a polyglyceryl ester such as polyglyceryl-6 oleate, polyglyceryl-6 hydroxystearate…a combination works best along with a “buddy ester” like sorbitan oleate, glyceryl stearate citrate, lauryl glutamate. Good luck with all that expensive peptide.
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That is weird. Nice knock-out work too there, my friend. Often pheoxyethanol crashes viscosity in surfactant systems but I’ve never known a ppt. to form. Must be somehow knocking out a crosslink in the SF-2, creating a less crystalline/less soluble sub chain? Anyhow, your pH is sufficiently low to accommodate an acid-based preservative , i.e. benzoate, sorbate, caprylhydroxamic, etc.. especially if you knock it down to pH4.8 - 5.2. Even better: do you have an objection to using Kathon (MIT)? Ideal for this formulation.
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Negative. Neither contributes any apparent yield value to shampoos like that. EGMS is not so much suspended as it is emulsified in those surfactant systems. I can’t speak to the silicone thing you mention.
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What Phil & Mark said…plus there are simpler ways to stabilize urea. Most common is to employ a lactate/lactic acid buffer at pH5.5 or so. An uncommon one is to add rice starch to the formula. Some amyloid starches adsorb urea in solution retarding degradation into biuret and ammonia. Cool, huh!
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Approximately pH2.80
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@Maria2772 Answer: Nope!
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@VictoriaBee The original Polawax fabricated by Croda was and still is cetearyl alcohol @ 65% / polysorbate 60 @ 35% (aka “polyoxyethylene sorbitan monostearate”.) Some specialty chemical suppliers offer an offset to Promulgen D, another early emulsifier blend from the now defunct Amerchol in which ceteareth-20 is substituted for polysorbate 60. Both are often referred to as Emulsifying Wax NF, even though Polawax is the monographed material. The substance you were buying was a hybrid of the two, erroneously labeled “Polawax”. All you need is to obtain cetearyl alcohol, ceteareth-20 and polysorbate 60 then blend to your own needs, ceteareth-20 being more flexible in o/w emulsions. PEG-150 Stearate is nice to have around also, but unnecessary most of the time.
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There is a disconnect here: are you formulating a w/o sunscreen emulsion here? If so, I don’t expect any of the rheology modifiers you mention to work well if at all. Neither the urethane (ExpertGel) nor the acrylic (Pemulen) will build viscosity. Both must have a carbomer partnered with it to build viscosity so just add 0.50 - 1.0% Synthalen K (carbomer) with Pemulen TR-2 - which handles up to 40% oil load, twice that of TR-1 - and make this an o/w emulsion. Add 1.0 - 2.0% cetyl alcohol and some silky sensorial esters and you are done. PBSA is totally compatible with the anionic acrylics.
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That Polyaquol polyglyceryl ester blend will work better than Olivem 900 just as long as you are formulating w/o emulsions with it.
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The answer is a qualified YES. I am unfamiliar with “Ecogel” but must assume it is a gum-derived hydrocolloid? On another note: why make all these slurries and pre-gels? It baffles me why so many formulators do this. Simply change the order of addition and use the right mixing equipment and that technique is never needed again. Direct hydration into water, one at a time, side-sweep agitation engaging when the yield value increases. Much easier.
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Fascinating account there, Mike. You and your wife were indie-natural beauty before that was cool. I take it you are transitioning out of this personal care vortex now? Good luck to you in your next phase.
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Do you have a problem with carbomers for making gels? Sounds like those “essentials” may have residual elements such as geraniols or doped with phenoxyethanol. A carbomer gel would be unaffected.