[Cafe33]

I learned of the formulation on this very thread. I also found a formulation using saponification of fatty acids including myristic in the cosmetic and toiletry formulations book.

I found the addition of isopropyl palmitate to be very helpful, almost to the point where you could do second passes without lathering up again. 

[Cafe33]

I will try what ggpetrov suggested so I can investigate this material further. I tried a similar formula using Lanette N at 3.5% and it worked very well. 

I don’t have glyceryl stearate citrate or 165 but I can make the SE version. 

[Cafe33]

NEVER put glycerine nor decyl glucoside in a shampoo bar. Even 2% decyl glucoside weakens bars. I do not know why, but I have witnessed it repeatedly in 7 different trials at different percentages.

Never use D-panthenol (liquid). It will snap your bar in half after 1-2 washes. You can use the racemic powdered version with no issue.

Don’t use cetearyl alcohol with BTMS-25, switch to Cetyl alcohol upwards of 5%. Add stearic acid, 2-3%

The clay is not going to help either. 

Shea butter 9%, I am a little ashamed to say I laughed out loud when I read that because I also went down the same path as you. If you insist on using a large amount, your limit will be 2%. My personal recommendation - 0.1% 

Add Sodium Lactate at no more than 2%. You can add it to the CAPB

You will need 70% or so total dry surfactant material. You can add Sodium Coco sulfate which is the best choice as it actually cleans, or you can add SLSa for a milder less fulfilling wash.

[Cafe33]

Thank you for the detailed response. 2 of us tested it at different time intervals, 12h-48h. My partner just tried it on her face. Upon application, it feels like it spreads well but as you pointed out, it doesn’t. She felt the need to wash it off a few mins after application.

I was following a formulation presented by IPCS for an aftershave lotion. I thought it was a good introduction to the raw material, and I elected to try a first test as close to the initial formula which omits glyceryl stearate. 

I am trying a test with Lanette N. Can it emulsify silicones?

Is it the “sulfate” tag that makes it less popular with the natural/ecocert crowd?   

 

[Cafe33]

abierose, you are many steps ahead! I think you should follow Microformulation’s advice. When it comes to business focus on what you know best. In your case, your skills will take you far I am sure. 

As far as formulation, if you have an interest, that is a good thing. Do it as a hobby only if you actually enjoy it. In my case, I prefer formulating over going out for a beer in many cases.

[Cafe33]

I think my sentence was poorly structured

4% Olivem 1000

0.3% Xanthan gum 

[Cafe33]

You should post your entire formula with proper weight percentage. The problem you are describing is the “soaping effect” 

[Cafe33]

Hi David, I am glad you are back. I have been focused on this category in the last week and I know this is your wheelhouse. 

Here is a formulation that has worked quite well for me 

water =                                  to 100%
Glycerin =                             6.00%
EDTA 4Na =                          0.10%
Potassium Hydroxide =         7.00%
Soda caustic =                      1.50%

Stearic acid =                        30.00% (Half after sapon.)

Coconut oil =                        10.00%

Palm Oil =                             5.00%

Isopropyl Palmitate =              2.00%
Essential Oil Blend =               0.90%

I was even successfully in pressing them using a shampoo bar mold w/ 95psi. It fits nicely in a 4oz jar and leaves room for a brush. I am such a newbie, I have never even owned a brush! One is on its way from Amazon. I had to try and lather with my hands. The shave is absolutely incredible. 

I also had multiple attempts to recreated the Proraso Pre Shave cream. It is a product I have used for years, but with my new shave soap, I don’t feel like I need it as much

dH20	72.9
Glycerin	3
EDTA	0.2
KOH	0.9
Avena Sativa	0.5
Stearic Acid	20
Cetearyl Alcohol	1
Germall Plus Liquid	0.5
Menthol	0.4
EO Blend	0.6

I will try and dissolve the colloidal oats in the oil phase, it makes sense. 

Currently working on soap which would be softer and could lather up without the use of a brush.  I would have to remove the palm oil I believe, as I had a trial with only coconut oil and it was much fluffier. I also have an attempt using sodium lauroyl sarcosinate but I feel like I used too much (2%)

[Cafe33]

As a lifelong entrepreneur, I say that it is healthy to take an interest in manufacturing and formulation. It can be a good hobby and of course the more you understand every part of your (potential) business, the more chances you will be successful.

I can’t tell you the times I have been overcharged and blatantly ripped off for things like website design, logo and graphic design. When the pandemic hit, I finally sat down and started fully creating my own websites and graphic design. Now I am not required to pay a technician/designer hundreds of dollars for simple changes I can do myself. 

That being said, I know my limitations and I would for example hire someone like Mark Fuller if I needed a professional formulation. However if I was provided with a formula like the one the OP was given, I definitely would know that something is wrong.  

[Cafe33]

It depends completely on the nature of the color. As far as pigments, to give you a rough benchmark, 0.1% can be quite strong.

Then you have some colors that require a tiny amount like RED 33 and Green 8. I manufacture a pink colored spray and I dissolve 0.05g of RED 33 in a 99.95g of water and use 0.22% of this solution and it creates a vibrant pink color.  

So to provide a rough range - 0.02 - 0.20 %

[Cafe33]

Yes, my apologies, I remember now. 5% resulted in dull fragrances. The usage rate I read about is 1-5% calculated on the basis of the fragrance.  

[Cafe33]

I found that if you use too much Glucam P 20 it will dull the scent. Usually from my reading, around 5% is added calculated from the fragrance usage rate… so not much. 

[Cafe33]

Well, when I buy my cocamidopropyl betaine it is almost clear in color. It will begin to yellow after some time. I washed and recycled a nearly empty left over 1Lt bottle that was around 1.5 years old and the residue was dark yellow with bad smell. 

As far as decyl glucoside, I have the BASF version and there is hardly a smell. Again I found an old 1Lt bottle (same box!) with around 100mL I had forgotten about  which is also 1.5 years old. I just smelled it and it has no bad smell whatsoever. 

Perhaps it is time for a new supplier?

[Cafe33]

I will say this, I’ve been down this path and I think you should create base formulas that make financial sense before you add exotic and expensive ingredients. You should find out if you plan on commercializing the product. 

KeraRepair, NaturePep Amaranth

Replace these items with 2.5% Polyquat 7 and see for yourself.

And to answer your question, yes you could simply add Polyquat 7 while including these items in your formulation.  

[Cafe33]

Thanks. So how does Allantoin compare to Aloe vera gel? 

[Cafe33]

With BTMS-50, I prefer to combine it with cetearyl alcohol instead of cetyl alcohol to make it thicker. You can add 2-3%  Polyquat-7 in the cool down phase.  

[Cafe33]

You are most likely using the wrong perfume. With some fragrance, particularly ones labeled for home care, 0.5% can be more than enough to fill the room so to speak.

Here’s one utilizing 0.2%

Home Cleaning Formulations - Evonik Cleaning Solutions

[Cafe33]

This proved to be difficult and I was unsuccessful by simply melting the two together. 

Using EtOH as a solvent, I was success and under cooling/evaporation, I got a waxy uniform compound. I then tested the product and was able to create a successful emulsion which held for many days before I finally discarded it. 

[Cafe33]

Availability issues. I am in Mexico, I can order glyceryl stearate for 3 USD per kg yet I do not have 165 available. The lotion was made and was very well receive. We processed a first order for 4kg. It was time sensitive so I used what I had on hand. 

I am unable to find PEG 100 Stearate, however PEG 150 Stearate is available to me. Does anyone have an opinion on whether that would provide a nice skin feel comparable to the 100 version? Buying it will come with some frustration as it involves dealing with a not so professional customer service. 

[Cafe33]

Laury l alcohol ethoxylate 7 moles: 14% w/w

This is very high. I make a concentrated surface cleaner and I use 10% of the 9 mole version (70% ASM). Once diluted for use, it is simply 1%. I would not put 14% on my skin.  

[Cafe33]

Hand operated vacuum pump will be fairly weak for a hard to filter item, unless perhaps on a small scale it would be sufficient.  I would use coarse/fast filter paper with buchner funnel and possibly a filtering aid like celite might be required. If you plan on filtering hot, make sure you use a ceramic buchner funnel and not plastic. You would be surprised how some of these strong “lab grade” (ie lab priced) plastic buchner funnels start to bend and distort with temperatures as low as 45C. You might lose some product in the celite if your vacuum is too weak but that should be okay by the sound of your post .

That’s how we did it in the lab to filter even something as small as carbon in a high density liquid (1.25g/ml or so).

[Cafe33]

This is the complete formulation? You do not use fragrance? Those are all fairly inexpensive chemicals.

[Cafe33]

I have recently delved into this category. Has anyone ever tried colloidal oats in the water phase? I have completed 3 different formulations with this ingredient (0.75%) and it is absolutely a great addition. I have coarse hair and sensitive skin so I am the perfect tester.  I guess the issue would be proper preservation. I have used 0.5% Germall plus. 

[Cafe33]

I think you are looking for properties which you will not necessarily find in BTMS and cetearyl alcohol and you are actually “overformulating” with these ingredients. The moisture retention effect you are looking for will come from a polyquat and/or dimethicone.

You can also increase the slip with something like 5% IPM or another ester in the oil phase. The slip for BTMS is nice but limited and you are trying to force it to do something it cannot. 

Your humectant usage is also low with only 1.2% Glycerin. I think you should try a test batch with the ingredients we listed and take it from there. 

[Cafe33]

9% of BTMS-50 is a HUGE amount and most likely unnecessary. I have had great results in a leave in conditioner with 5% BTMS-50 and 3% Cetearyl Alcohol using 10% Oils, 2-3% Polyquat-7 and 1.0-1.5% D-Panthenol. Raise the glycerin to 2-3% as well. It is also very thick.

I dont understand why guar gum is included in your formulation?

Water - Q.S.

Glycerin - 3% 

BTMS 50 - 5% 

Cetearyl alcohol - 3% 
Coconut Oil - 5% 
Ester or oil of your choice - 5%

Polyquat - 7 - 3%
D-Panthenol - 1%
Preservative 
Fragrance 

This will be thick and will not flow if you flip the jar upside down.