Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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If you ever make your way up to Kennesaw, I’d be happy to sit and talk with you about possible job hunt strategies.
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@DavidW, do you know of any entry-level positions open?
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Another way to break in is to start as a QC Chemist…
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Have you checked with ZEP? http://www.zepinc.com/
Other possibilities include a position with a raw material supplier: Essential Ingredients, Brenntag, Nexeo, etc. -
All kidding aside, there are a number of common ingredients, mostly surfactants, that act to inactivate preservatives. On top of that, the processing matters, as does which phase of the emulsion the preservatives end up in.
It’s not a simple question, unfortunately, and does not have a simple answer. If you are a professional, a number of the preservative suppliers will challenge test your product for free. -
Rachel,
Where in Georgia do you live, and are you open to relocating? There may be job openings that we can connect you with. -
Is that the one that says “Pass”, “Fail”, “Stable” and “Unstable”?
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@Perry,
Why do you think people assume that we have some sort of crystal ball that will automagically predict stability and/or micro results? -
The ONLY way to find out is to actually run the challenge test. It is impossible to even guess at results without the full formula.
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Probably not. But the only way to find out is to test it yourself.
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I’m also going to recommend posting your request on LinkedIn, particularly in the groups specifically for cosmetic chemists and formulators.Groups I’d suggest:All Natural Cosmetic ManufacturingCosmetic Formulation Technology & Development ProfessionalsSociety of Cosmetic ChemistsSociety of Cosmetic Scientists(Full disclosure: I manage the group “Cosmetic Formulation Technology & Development Professionals”)
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@palanquin, finding a reputable manufacturing company to partner with that can produce every single product type you want, and then do everything to those products that you are asking for, and yet still will produce product in tiny (10 gallons) to very small (100 gallons) batch sizes is actually a lot of work. Most people would prefer to pay a consultant to do this work for them, and not the least of reasons is to have someone evaluating these companies who can reliably filter out the BS.
As an example, the company I work for (Beaumont Products) does some private label work, and a little bit of custom/contract manufacturing. From your list, we can currently produce/private label: shampoos, conditioners, body/hand lotions, and animal shampoos/cleaners. (If you’re going the full private label route (our formula, our packaging, your label) I don’t think there are any minimums. If we are custom-making batches, the minimum is 200 gallons.) But my point is - we don’t make everything on your list, and we don’t have tested/validated formulas, or tested/validated packaging, for those products we don’t currently make. Feel free to look at our website, http://www.beaumontproducts.com for the list of things we do make.Most manufacturers in the US are going to have similar limitations - they won’t make everything, or they have high minimums, or they have high prices, or they don’t fill/package, or they can’t scale up, or they will want you to pay for formula development and/or testing and validation, and on and on. It’s a big job to sort through all of this for all of the manufacturers, and also to determine what sort of compromises you are willing to make to reach your goals. If you don’t hire a consultant, you’ll have to do all that yourself.I’m going to add my recommendation for you to talk with @DavidW if you have formulations, and to still talk to Mark Fuller if you don’t. -
Preventing sedimentation has much more to do with yield value than with “thickness”
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Drying the citric acid so that it’s water-free and then keeping it that way is more expensive, but some people find that grade useful anyway. The other grade is cheaper, and does not need to be stored air-tight.
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A slavish copy of a product’s ingredient list is rarely useful, unless you are deliberately making a generic/store-brand version of that product.
Really look at each ingredient in the ingredient declaration, and then find out/figure out why it’s there. Only then should you include it in your formula. I suspect that the alcohol came in as a mixture with the extracts.Knowing what I do about conditioners, it’s possible that the alcohol and everything following it are below the 1% line, which would mean that the order of the ingredients is actually random and/or deliberately misleading. -
This is the sort of information that you’d typically have to pay a consultant for. Mark @microformulations may be able to help you, or you could try posting on LinkedIn.
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Could you let us know your results on the “natural” preservatives?
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@cookiejones, a big issue I’m sure you’re facing is that most cosmetic chemists are clustered in one of three areas: NY/NJ, Chicago, and LA. One of the problems I’ve found in the hiring process is that many employers do not seem to appreciate the level of risk a cosmetic chemist takes on when they take a job outside of those areas.
Companies close, reduce staff, and/or offshore/outsource all the time, and doing a fantastic job is no guarantee that a chemists employment will continue. If a chemist gets caught in that while living/working in one of the areas with a high concentration of jobs/chemists, it may take only a few phone calls to find another job.But if you’re in Charlotte, or Atlanta, or Miami and that happens, it can take many months to find another job. It’s a near certainty that you’re going to have to make an interstate move to get one, too, uprooting your family in the process. So, if an employer isn’t willing/able to compensate the chemist for taking on that risk, there will be few, if any, experienced chemists willing to make the initial move.Cookie, judging by your job description, you may want to look outside the traditional cosmetic industry for suitable candidates, -
@DavidW You do know I’m in Atlanta, right?
You’re correct, though - the going rate for experienced cosmetic chemists here seems to be about 70 - 80K in salary, plus benefits and bonus. My rates for consulting (if I had to give up my full-time job) would have to be considerably higher, to make up for the loss in benefits, the need for malpractice insurance, etc.My understanding is that the HI&I chemists up the street at ZEP are also making about 60 -80k.But senior chemists/scientists at places like Estee Lauder, Revlon, Avon, etc. are making $120 - 130K or more, (and yet aren’t living as well as I am able to here in beautiful downtown Kennesaw, GA, where the weather’s usually better, too.) -
@cookiejones, I’d recomend looking and posting your position on LinkedIn, particularly in the groups specifically for cosmetic chemists and formulators. Make sure to mention that you won’t use recruiters.
Groups I’d suggest:All Natural Cosmetic ManufacturingCosmetic Formulation Technology & Development ProfessionalsFormulatory - A Forum for Formulation ProfessionalsSociety of Cosmetic ChemistsSociety of Cosmetic Scientists(Full disclosure: I manage the group “Cosmetic Formulation Technology & Development Professionals”) -
@DavidW, It’s that whole “fair wage” issue that trips you and the other personal care manufacturers up all the time, well that, and the problems with relative cost of living. A mid-career cosmetic chemist will say to him/herself “I can make a six-figure salary if I live in the NY/NJ area and work for one of the major companies” and not pay attention to the fact that the cost of living differences means that they could actually live a more comfortable life making just a little more than half that salary if they lived somewhere else.
Also, to a certain extent, you get what you pay for… -
1. The FDA will start cracking down on excessive/misleading claims in OTC’s/sunscreens2. The EWG and other NGO’s will find at least two more “toxic” chemicals to be hysterical about.3. Avon will be forced into bankruptcy and/or be bought out by Amway.4. At least one other major cosmetic company will merge or be acquired by another one.5. The US economy will grow at less than 1%. Cosmetic industry sales as a whole will be flat or declining.6. Climate change will be finally accepted as fact by more than 50% of the US population, but the country as a whole will continue to do nothing about it.7. EU and US cosmetic regulations will move closer to harmonization.
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I’m starting to get a concept of what to do and how to explain this to kids.
How much of this is a science project and how much is a crafts activity? And…how much of a budget do you have? -
Hmmm…let me give this some thought and I’ll get back to you.
If you have to stay non-toxic and easy, however, you’re going to wind up with something similar to glitter glue, and it will take a long time to dry…is that OK?