Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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@Eclectic - there are absolutely no labs that have any kind of reputation at all with consumers.
As far as the cosmetic/haircare industry is concerned, a “good” lab will run a test in a timely manner, provide an adequately detailed and scientifically valid report, and will not charge exorbitantly.The thing you most have to decide is, like Perry says, what will be compelling to your customers?You can spend a bunch of money on detailed tests that come back and say ” with a 90% confidence range, our tests show that hair treated with MiracleGoo(tm) shows a 30% reduction in combing force and a 20% increase in gloss.”Or, you can spend much less money, and have a test lab hand out a sample of your product to 20 testers, have them use it for a week, and get a report back that says “All of our testers thought MiracleGoo(tm) made their hair smoother, shinier, and easier to manage. 80% of them really liked it and said it was great, and 20% said it was moderately great. 65% said it was better than what they use now and 30% said it was just as good. 5% said it was worse.”Which test results will let you make claims that will get your customers/consumers to buy or buy more of your product? Either one will legally substantiate a variety of claims. -
What is the average cost? It depends greatly on the claims that are being tested for, and on how large you want the test to be, and where it is conducted. It’s so variable that an average cost for “claims testing” won’t tell you anything.Do you see it as a valuable investment? It can be, if your claims are valid and substantiated.Is it a worthy investment as a marketing tool? Depends on the claims. Are you making something unique, or just another “me too” product? Also, if you try to make claims without testing - what’s it worth to you not to be the subject of a class-action lawsuit for fraudulent claims?How do you tell a good lab from a mediocre one? Reputation - but how do you define “good”?
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I hope I’m not sounding like too much of a broken record about this, but I think you should try two approaches.
Firstly, drop the Olivemulse (Olivem1000) and the BTMS completely. Make your emulsion with one of the more fool proof emulsifiers, like Pemulen TR-1 or TR-2 (depending on how much oil you use)Secondly, make an Olivem or BTMS emulsion but drop out everything but water, emulsifier and oil phase.Let us know how this all turns out.As far as equipment goes, I think you should seriously consider either a decent overhead mixer or a heavy-duty kitchen stand mixer. Using a whisk is probably the worst thing you could do to an emulsion. -
How will you keep it stable?
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If anyone else wants to set up a WordPress site, it’s extremely easy, only requires any kind of valid email address, and it lets you share most documents and photos.
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Thanks, @Perry. Figuring out how to share documents with people here was driving me crazy (OK, if you want to get technical, more crazy)
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I posted a comment on Amanda’s blog (which I recommend to all of us, by the way), and since it’s already out there, I’ll put a link to it here:
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This Clariant brochure calls out the LA 30 as part of an associative thickener system. That makes sense to me - it won’t work as a thickener by itself.
http://biokhimact.com.ua/sites/default/files/I%26HC%20brochure-1.pdf
Supplier Formula:For those of us who need to know more, this is a truly great article to read: -
I’m not sure that a spray-on mineral sunscreen will ever be possible. Having a formula strong enough to suspend the minerals very probably means that it will be too thick to spray safely.
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My primary point is that if you’re going to try making colored lip products, and you’re not planning on formulating for years to come, just buy the pre-made dispersions. It’s way too much work to make them yourself.
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Please also bear in mind that for soaps, “gentle” is exactly the same thing as “Less Effective Cleaner”. A “harsh” soap cleans off all the dirt and oil that should be cleaned off, but also takes off the sebum, etc. that should be there, leaving the skin dry and possibly rough. A “gentle” soap leaves oil behind, but also some of the dirt and debris that possibly should have been cleaned off.
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Lakes and dyes are NOT the same thing. First, a lake is a dye that has been turned into an insoluble pigment. It won’t dissolve. Not in water, or in oil. Ever.
Second, dyes are a usually a Bad Thing in lipsticks. It is difficult/impossible to control their color intensity on the lips, and if the lips themselves actually get dyed? IT WON”T COME OFF!Third, dry pigments come already clumped/agglomerated. They need to be wetted AND de-agglomerated. You can buy pigment dispersions that are have been already wetted and de-agglomerated for you, or you can do it yourself.If you do it yourself, there are more things you have to be aware of. To begin with, it takes a LOT of shear force to do this properly - you’re going to need either a roller mill, a ball mill, or an Omni-mixer. Possibly a Cowles Dissolver. But otherwise, not even a Silverson homogenizer is strong enough.Next, even if you have successfully wetted and de-agglomerated your pigments, if your carrier fluid isn’t viscous/suspending enough, the pigments will settle and re-agglomerate. And yes, that will mean that you have to mill them all over again before you can use them.Lastly, even completely wetted and milled dispersions need to be mixed thoroughly, or you will not have uniform color.Without more data about your formulation and process, I can’t say for sure what’s going wrong with your particular formula, though. -
I did some research on this a while back, when I was making anti-acne products. But, as @AuroraBorealis said, we’re not doctors, and aren’t qualified to give medical advice.
That being said, I’m going to use this as a teaching moment, so I’m going to ask you questions instead of giving you answers. Being able to look things up on Google is a valuable life skill, so remember that doing this will help you later in everything, not just for this moment.1) What is a comedone? How is an open comedone different from a closed comedone?2) There are three things that have to be present on your skin in order for pimples (whiteheads) to happen. What are they?3) What causes open comedones? How can you remove them safely? What are the pros and cons of each method?4) What are the treatment methods for closed comedones? What are the pros and cons of each method?5) How does your body regulate sebum production?After answering all these questions, you will hopefully be in a position to answer some of your own question. If not, you are welcome to come back here and ask again. -
My guess is that no one knows, because the research hasn’t been done yet.
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I have a hypothesis - Your formula is right at the edge of the limit of oils/butters that can be solubilized and/or micro-emulsified by the surfactant package in your shampoo. Something that you added, maybe the Guar, but probably not, has tipped your formula over the edge into a macro-emulsion.
We can help more with a formulation.But - something to think about: What are all those expensive oils/butters doing for you in your formulation? Have you checked to see if they are depositing on the hair shaft, or if they’re all just uselessly washing down the drain? -
For a consumer product, you’re going to have to blend it with another organic oil.
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The gold standard for fragrance solubilizers is PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil.
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Dude… Natural minoxidil? Way more valuable than a depilatory.
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Yes, exactly that. Once you have a following, and can demonstrate good sales numbers, that’s when you can start moving up the food chain.
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Most of the professional cosmetic chemists today (including me) learned on-the-job with essentially unlimited supplies, at least of the basic ingredients. The selection of ingredients was overwhelming, even many years ago, and it’s gotten worse since then. The solution most of us chose was to pick out 2 or 3 ingredients per category, and get really familiar and knowledgeable about them (to the point where, if you knew which chemist specialized in which ingredient, you could pick up a commercial product, look at the ingredient list, and know who formulated it)I’d suggest that you do the same, at least as close as you can. You’ve picked out 4 surfactants that should work well together. Make an investment in learning, and buy 5 gallon pails of each. Then, you can make larger batches and worry less about getting the formula perfect the first time, and enjoy experimenting.
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All chelating agents are specifically used to complex with metals - that’s what makes them chelating agents.
And, it’s more that the pigments interfere with the chelating agents, rather than the other way around. -
Are you trying to make a consumer product, or just to keep it liquid for easy processing?