Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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Here at Beaumont Products, we work with d-limonene in many of our products. D-limonene itself is a reasonably strong solvent, and should be treated with the same amount of caution as Acetone is, especially when it comes to PPE.
But the real harm comes in if it is allowed to oxidize (we store and process ours under nitrogen blankets at all times to prevent this). Oxidized d-limonene is a very nasty allergen/sensitizer, and can cause very bad reactions on skin. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1395597
I can’t say whether or not spray will be harmful - read your SDS and do a Google search to find out for yourself.
D-limonene also has the ability to extract plasticizers from plastic blends (like the ones used for bottles), making it critical to run long-term stability tests on your packaging. Plastic without plasticizer is brittle - this is a very bad trait in a package that you want to stay intact.
D-limonene isn’t at all soluble in castor oil. If the castor oil is required in your formula, you’re going to have to make an emulsion, and I can tell you from experience, making a stable emulsion with even 1% of d-limonene is a major pain in the butt. 30% or more will probably be impossible. It should be possible to solubilize that much, but you’re going to have to get really creative with coupling agents.
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@PeiHoong, your question doesn’t seem like nonsense, but you are confused and not familiar with the types of products and formulations. You didn’t cause me any trouble, and I’m not trying to cause you any trouble.
I am, however, trying to save your job. If my boss had assigned a project to me like this, I’d get fired if I wasn’t able to come up with results within a reasonable time frame. We can help guide you to the information and experiments you’ll need, but it will take a very long time. If your boss needs results quickly, you will be better off telling him you need help right away, rather than letting him discover that 6 or 8 months from now.
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Are you in the US?
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That much d-limonene will be really, really bad for your skin. Why are you trying to do this?
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Our website is http://www.beaumontproducts.com
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@eisen, if you make this, and a customer gets hurt, you could go to jail. NOT a good idea.
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We make pet care products here at Beaumont Products, and we will do private label on occasion. We don’t do custom formulation, though.
Be aware that a certified organic formula will double or triple the cost of a “natural” formula, which will itself be significantly more expensive than a regular formula.
But “contains no chemicals”? The only way to do that is to sell an empty bottle.
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You seem to be confusing advice given for pressed powder systems, and for aqueous systems, with advice for hot pour systems, all of which tells me that you are in way, way over your head. Then I see that you are not even able to bring new raw materials into your company to formulate with. This will not end well. In fact, this is very likely to fail in a major way.
I’d very strongly suggest that you get out in front of this impending failure, and tell your supervisor that you will need lots of advice from an expert in formulating hot-pour cosmetics in order to complete the project assigned to you. Just having a chemistry degree is no substitute for the years of additional training required to be a cosmetic chemist.
We will not be able to give you the level of help you need for free - you’re going to need to pay a consultant in order to have any hope of finishing your project by the end of the year.
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If you ever have the opportunity, have someone show you how things are milled (and cleaned up) on one of the larger mills. Some things have to be seen to be believed.
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Also - the smaller the particle size of your pigments/powders, the easier they are to suspend. That’s probably the first thing I’d check in this situation (in addition to the fumed silica John suggested) - if you’re not grinding your pigments down to at least below 4 microns, you’re going to have trouble.
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Because you’re not selling probiotics, you’re selling biotics. Living organisms in your products, And the potential for harm to customers is high. And harmed customers, wherever in the world they are, affect the industry I work in negatively, which then affects me.
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You can check this mathematically, at least sort of. Let’s look at Nyx eyeshadow, for example. A Nyx round eyeshadow has a net weight of 1.5 grams. We’ll assume that Nyx wants a 3-month use rate. So, someone using the eyeshadow twice a day every day will have to have at least 2x30x3 = 180 usages. 1.5 grams divided by 180 usages is about 0.008 grams per use. See why I said you’d need a 3-place balance?
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Only with a really accurate lab balance with 2 or 3-place precision. The amount is going to be substantially less than 1 gram. 1 gram of eyeshadow goes a long, long way when spread on skin. That’s why we used ten times as a method - just one time wouldn’t use up an easily measured amount of product.
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I agree with John.
The potential for truly catastrophic levels of damage is immense. Moreover, if someone gets harmed by your product, the potential legal disaster could spill over onto everyone who works for you, who does business with you, and even onto anyone who’s ever even given you advice.
You could lose your business. In some places, you could even be convicted and sent to jail, as could your employees.
The only thing worse than what you’re doing would be to deliberately include deadly levels of poison into your products. I just don’t have the words to tell you how bad this is. Are you taking any precautions at all to make sure that you’re not introducing lethal levels of pathogens into your products?
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As johnb says,we need the formula before we can give any substantial advice. I’d be particularly interested in what pigment suspending agent you are using.
I’ll also point out something I frequently tell beginners. NEVER make even the slightest changes to a published formula until you are sure that you can make it succesfully yourself as written. Not all published formulas work well. Some don’t work at all. If you make changes before you even start, you can never know what’s going wrong.
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Wow…thanks for the heads up. I have no idea what’s going on, but my management needs to be informed ASAP.
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Honestly, it depends strongly on the specific formulation, the applicator, and the person applying it. I know that when I worked for Lauder we’d test this for all new formulas, mostly to make sure that we weren’t selling a year’s supply of makeup in a single bottle. I also know that Estee Lauder considered this proprietary information at the time, and I’m pretty sure that hasn’t changed, so I don’t feel that I can release the info that I remember. I’d bet that almost all other makeup companies have the same policy. If you need this info, you’re probably going to have to determine it yourself.
I can, however, tell you that this info was usually determined by having a few people apply each formulation normally for ten times each, then we took an average to get to the usage rate. Sometimes, we’d do a full-blown home usage test instead, and give a new formula to employees to take home and use until it was finished, then report back.
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First coffee, now beer…if you start making a pizza shampoo, I’m moving to Mexico. <span>:smiley:</span>
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Wow.
You really need to understand the chemistry of your ingredients before you go around throwing chemicals into a formula just to see what happens.
For example, what is “dist. hectorite”?
Or even, why is a very polar ingredient like propylene carbonate, which is completely incompatible with lipstick ingredients, being added to lipsticks, and how is it being kept stable?
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Also remember, even with a contract/NDA, your only real recourse will be to sue the contract manufacturer - which will totally destroy any relationship, and guarantee you’ll never be allowed to be their customer again.
Your best bet is to protect yourself with unique branding/packaging/trade dress and really good marketing.
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Which nail polish manufacturers have you checked with?
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Check and see if you can get an apron like the one below for the Dermamill. The triangular design is much easier to work with.
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Anything applied to human skin is either a cosmetic or a drug. Anything labeled with an “active ingredient” is likely to be considered an unapproved drug by the FDA.
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Where have you looked for formulas so far?
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PCPC Buyers guide