[BartJ]

I am told that this is a company that will meet and exceed the expectations you listed above.

http://www.nuco.pl/

Please be prepared for MOQs going in thousands and tens of thousands depending on the product.

[BartJ]

@Bobzchemist ,

Could this work for speed cameras?

[BartJ]

Taking a closer look:

1. Boric acid becomes a CMR 1B when it’s used >5,5% .

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:235:0001:0439:en:PDF
also visible in COSING at the very bottom:
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.details_v2&id=31043

2. Contrary to what I said, 15(2) of 1223/2009 requires ALL four conditions to be met for a CMR 1B to get an exception. SCCS opinion being only one of the four.

If this statement for boric acid(reprotoxic at >5,5%) can be directly extrapolated to sodium borate  then the 15(2) conditions are irrelevant as your client uses <0,5%. 

I think your client is OK but as SAs aren’t government officials this will need a court case.
I think you will need a lawyer+independent safety assessor as expert witness in court to prove it(not taking local national laws into account.)

I hope I’m correct, you know as well as I do that this is a big maze of regulations. There also that food related regulation that could be of influence but I think proving that they’ve not reached toxic levels is key.

[BartJ]

Interesting.

Article 15(2) appears to state that SCCS has the right to override a ban on a carcinogen.
And it seems it does so here:
http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_safety/docs/sccs_o_027.pdf

What do you think?

[BartJ]

About the tallow/lard thing… I’m quite surprised by the comments above and wonder about the processing involved. I’m far from being an animal fat expert, I only ever had tallow from a UK based reseller:
http://www.thesoapkitchen.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000002.pl?WD=tallow&PN=tallow-best-white-refined-335%2ehtml#SID=28

The quality was on par with coconut oil and palm oil. So I support the opinion that it can be a brilliant raw material if prepared correctly.

[BartJ]

Edit: please ignore below, i was browsing on my phone and somehow missed that you’re asking for a replacement. 
—-

I use it all the time as support for glyceryl monostearate, which is my primary emulsifier, in body balms, butters, hand cream. 
Very happy with performance of that duo. 

[BartJ]

Thanks so much Elise!

I remember reading Bob’s comment back then and thinking I know what he’s referring to. I think that’s enough info there to put me on the right track.
If i find the original article at some point, i’ll post it. 

[BartJ]

I have attended a ‘feasibility meeting’ not so long ago.

We were asked to play buddhist meditation music during the manufacturing in order to imbue positive energy into the product.

I’m not joking. 
The project never materialised for far more down to earth reasons.

[BartJ]

A stick blender could pull it off.
Your batch must be large enough to submerge the head of the mixer far below the surface to prevent what Microformulation described from happening.

Using narrow beakers helps to get more height from a volume.

[BartJ]

Your surfactant level has to be below CMC to act as a penetration enhancer. Agree?

[BartJ]

This kind of product sometimes functions in esthetic medicine/cosmetic treatment parlours where it’s used as a face scrub.

It gets great reviews from the cosmetologists and estheticians that use those iron scrubs because it’s easy to clean the client’s face with the magnetic feature. You don’t want to be trying to wipe off tiny bits of salt and sugar from the corner’s of someone’s eyes. It ruins the mood of the treatment.

Iron provides an elegant solution.

[BartJ]

‘the oil, polysorbate and glycerin’

I think that the effects you are experiencing are to be perfectly expected with those.

What’s the reason for using a polysorbate here? I would use PSB20 where I need to dissolve an oily fragrance in a mostly water based product. Or could use PSB80/85 as a supportive emulsifier in an emulsion.
But what role have you ascribed to it?

For the harsh cleaning issue:
Is introducing cocamidopropyl betaine out of question? This would give a slight boost to your foam and manage the feeling of dryness.

6% of oil is skincare emulsion level of usage, perhaps 2% if you like to have oil in your cleaning product. Hopefully CAPB with reduce the harshness.

Glycerin - I believe the consensus is that glycerin in a rinse-off preparation plays a physicochemical role in the product (I read on this board that it will prevent crusting around the bottle dispenser’s mouth) but doesn’t have an effect on the skin because it will be washed away with water. 
As opposed to a leave-on product where it will stay on the skin.

[BartJ]

Are they actually using the same raw materials or just go one for one on the INCI?

[BartJ]

In EU:
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.results&annex_v2=II&search
A large number of banned chemicals are simply pharmaceutical actives. There’s also chemicals that belong to the petrochemical industry. And a few others…
Was it really necessary to specifically ban methotrexate from cosmetics?

[BartJ]

How much do you need?

The current asking price at BASF(one of the manufacturers) is 5 Euro/Kg. You need to buy 25 kg for that price.

Also, with the current GBP rate, British resellers are an interesting option:
http://www.gracefruit.com/additives/raw-materials/dry-ingredients/gracefruit-emulsifying-powder-se.html

[BartJ]

@chemicalmatt 

Matt, can I ask, where does something nonionic like Cocamide MEA fall into the order of addition? 
I developed a habbit of always adding it first because of the biggest heat demands among the shampoo solids I tend to deal with.

[BartJ]

Ah, a spelling mistake. Sorry. It certainly is disodium cocoamphodiacetate.
I’m using Betadet THC-2 from Kao for my disodium, Dehyton MC from BASF for mono - just to be clear.

[BartJ]

Hi, I wouldn’t know what progress you’ve made since last year but just want to share something and exchange views.

“I believe that if I replace the cocoampho with the taurate I will get even better foam and at the same time be able to salt thicken.”

I’ve got a sulphate-free formula thickened with Glucamate VLT but use disodium cocodiamphoacetate. I’ve found it has a better synergy with G-VLT than the mono version.

I appreciate how other surfactants and additives could make your system different to mine, but my observation is that this one is a key relationship in the formula. There is a noticable difference in viscosity between monosodium and disodium.

[BartJ]

My pleasure, I’ve had countless conversations with patients regarding inflammatory problems. My feeling has always been that there’s a bit of an intellectual barrier to treating inflammation. 
Something like type 2 diabetes is pretty straightforward to cure IF you can actually understand what’s happening to your body. And so, sadly, the T2DM is primarily a condition prevalent among lower educated people.

One thing I’d like to point out here is that inflammation is often divided into the chronic type and the acute type.

Every single debilitating long term condition carries an element of chronic inflammation (diabetes, asthma, eczema, MS, cancer, aetherosclerosis, diseases of the gut, arthritis and so on…) without exception.
Learning the causes behind that type of inflammatory response would be better served by articles on the web than me writing a quick post…

On the other hand, you’ve got the acute inflammation as a response to trauma or infection. This serves a reparative function primarily and does not add up to long term inflammatory plasma markers levels.

In what you said:
“ think microneedling at sufficient depth produces good results, and the short term inflammation it causes is overshadowed by the positive effects of later stages of healing.”

There’s nothing to overshadow. The needle traumatises the skin causing the short term inflammation, which in turn starts the process of skin proliferation and cell turnover.
You want the acute inflammation applied in intervals. It is what jump starts your skin.

It’s best exemplified in bodybuilding… A power lifter/bodybuilder traumatises muscle groups forcing them to repair themselves. They train a select muscle, then let it rest for days and train other muscle groups in meanwhile. 
This way they juggle microinjuries. A professional lifter is in a state of permanent acute inflammation that is apllied to and relieved from chosen body parts. 

And yet weight training will reduce plasma inflammatory markers, not increase them.
Microneedling allows you to access those same cellular principles by making the skin ‘grow’ just like weight lifting makes the muscles grow.

What I’m trying to get across here is that you cannot increase an acute response to the point of it becoming chronic. It’s not a difference of magnitude, they have different physiological origins. 

And it looks like there are some studies out there comparing PRP to bare microneedling:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26748836

P.S. btw, long distance running makes you age faster, no matter what nike and reebok say
bodybuilding/microneedling - running/sunbathing <- i’m sure you can tell where the difference lies

[BartJ]

I had a chat with my friend who performs the plasma based procedure I mentioned above. She’s an experienced practitioner and does not use the products you mentioned above for safety concerns similar to yours. 

On the other hand the platelet-rich plasma S/C therapy is safe in itself and has a proven track record. 
I’ve personally seen the photo diaries of patients undergoing this. There’s no doubt as to the efficacy.

[BartJ]

Skin/blood derived/bioidentical hormonal factors are the most powerful active ingredients. The topic is not going away because that topic is the future.
All restorative and anti-aging medicine concepts rely on two factors: 
- inflammation reduction
- hormonal manipulation
To a large extent most of the technology already exists, it’s just not massively developed because there isn’t as much money in anti-aging as it is in something like type 2 diabetes.

Your worry is quite well founded though. I could talk to you for ages about use of hormonal topicals and S/C products but they’re all _pharmaceuticals_. All procedures carried out would be done with quality sterile equipment, etc.

If you’re writing this as a client/patient, I’m happy to discuss this further and point you in the right direction. All of those products you see crossing into the cosmetics world are available in the healthcare environment, where you have guaranties that they were made under proper conditions.
Topical and S/C hormonals are nothing new at all. They’re used for a variety of conditions, it all boils down to have a dermatologist or even a general practitioner prescribe them for you with a cosmetic purpose.

In my personal professional opinion, I am happy to see any case of unregulated access to effective personal agents, where regulation applies to manufacturing conditions. 
The more people have to rely on their own judgement, the more responsible they become overall. But that product HAS TO originate in a sterile manufacturing plant.

[BartJ]

gee, where would you have access to subcutaneous HGH in the cosmetics world?
As in: without prescription?

There’s a cosmetic medicine procedure where you take blood from a person, centrifuge the plasma out and then subcutaneously inject the plasma over the desired area of the body.
There is no doubt as to the efficiency, however, the idea here is that you inject the person with their own plasma to avoid the problems mentioned above.

[BartJ]

Cheers Dave,
I’ve seen a brief comment in tech materials from Clariant and Kao along the lines of ‘the higher the damage, the higher level of cationic needed’.
I guess they wouldn’t recommend using less of their product though.

[BartJ]

One thing that came to my mind is the magnesium chloride in the mist.
I’ve seen a product once called magnesium oil. It was a 60% magnesium chloride 40% water.
That’s all. It passed the challenge test.
Not saying 60% is the effective preservative concentration for MgCl. Perhaps it will work at lower level as well. That particular product had 60%.

[BartJ]

They say things happen for a reason. Thank you Matt, BTCL’s on order.