[Aniela]

Hi,

1. According to most of the sources out there, the ASM for a body wash should be 15-20%- no idea about the “ideal” ASM. As a side note, I do not go over 15% in my personal body wash.

2. I’d say that using too much Coco-Betaine can pose some irritation risks, as it’s more stripping than CAPB. Regarding the foaming issue, your question is a bit confusing, as it’s supposed to be a foam-booster. Are you sure that is not something else in your formula that decreases the foam? Glycerin? Oils?

[Aniela]

Hello,

Whereas I still have some way to go till I can call myself an experienced formulator, I do have experience in working with people.

It seems the conundrum is maintaining your reputation vs condoning such requests.

I think you can do both, as long as your client knows that you do not agree with the team’s opinion.

You’ve made clear you view from the scientific point, so now you can let them choose some “fancy” ingredient(s), providing that they’ll also use the known performing ingredients you’ve recommended.

I’m sure they’ll come around after they’ll gain more knowledge and experience. We all grow at a different pace, right?

Regarding the higher cost of the “fancy” stuff: I’ve fallen in the cost-trap as I’ve used to look for the most cost-efficient solution, and I’ve learnt that my role was just to guide and make my comments, as the decision was theirs. Learnt that the hard way, after one client bluntly asked me “Did I appoint you to guard my money, Miss?”- nope, he obviously didn’t…

Finally, there’s only that much you can do once they have already set their minds on something else than your suggestion.

[Aniela]

Hi,

While I know nothing about brazilian treatment, and how should one take care of such a treated hair, I did find out from listening to The Beauty Brains podcast (Perry&Valerie) that decyl glucoside is a pretty poor choice in shampoos- hence the dry hair you’ve mentioned.

Regarding the use of polyquats, here’s an article written by Perry last year which can help you choosing the right one: https://www.ulprospector.com/knowledge/14571/pcc-polyquaterniums-in-cosmetic-formulas/#:~:text=Polyquaternium%2D7%3A%20Commonly%20used%20in,static%20and%20moisture%2Dretaining%20properties.

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Aniela.

[Aniela]

Hi,

1. Clay masks are notoriously difficult to preserve, and I highly doubt that geogard+TGDA will do the job. On top of that, you have hydrosol in there plus some other plant extracts, and all of these contain yummy bug-food. If cupuacu it’s unrefined, it also contains some bug-food.

2. Regarding the change of colour, it occurs usually with any plant-powder, it’s not a matcha-related issue. Most of the powder-solutions (water) will have a beautiful colour at a very acidic and/or alkaline pH, but will become “ugly” at a skin-friendly pH- for example, hibiscus turns gray. Also light and heat can further affect the colour.

3. Cupuacu is a fairly stable butter, so no need to add tocopherol, and increase your cost.

[Aniela]

Hi,

Not sure how this helps but the ingredients are listed in this order: Water, Cetyl alcohol, Propylene glycol, Sodium lauryl sulfate, Stearyl alcohol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylparaben, thus SLS might be/is at >1%.

[Aniela]

Hello,

1: No idea here, as I prefer my deo’s pH to be ≤5
2: Same here, as I don’t use ZnO because I want to avoid any colour transfer on dark clothes

3&4: this article might shed some light https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9137363/

5: I wish I could be of more help, but still learning…

[Aniela]

Hi,

You know by now that a question like that would only receive answers if all the details were given, right?

An increase in any of the ingredients you’ve given could work or not, depending on your whole formula.

[Aniela]

Hi, I’m not familiar with benzoyl peroxide, but you have on this page quite a few formulae, plus the complete ingredient lists (when you click on a formula)- this might help you discover what’s missing in your own formula. https://incidecoder.com/search?query=Benzoyl+peroxide

[Aniela]

I think your list is right (proof that my common sense can be wrong😳), as the new version lists the SCI in the <1% section- Aqua, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Panthenol, Niacinamide, Pantolactone, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid.

[Aniela]

Here https://incidecoder.com/products/cetaphil-cleansing-milk and here https://whatsinmyjar.com/product/cetaphil-gentle-skin-facial-cleanser-old-formula

Maybe not your “go-to” sources, but to me, it makes more sense their lists.

[Aniela]

Can’t promise, but I’ll try- “old school” education doesn’t die easy.

[Aniela]

Thank you, Dr Geis, I agree- I was just giving more details to make it clear why they introduced the ingredient in the formula, as I was asking for a substitute suggestion.

As for the preservative system, I’m going to use PE9010, sodium benzoate, and TGDA.

[Aniela]

It is just an attempt to a cream-deo🙂

I will del the Decalact and raise the Zn ricinoleate to 2% and see how that performs.

Currently I’m using a gel-deo which contains 3% potassium alum and 4% triethyl citrate- it performs pretty well.

If I’m not aiming for an antiperspirant, is it any other ingredient I should look for, please?

Thank you.

[Aniela]

Thank you @chemicalmatt ,

Indeed I didn’t make any attempts to it- so I will see what can I source here from what you’ve suggested.

Much appreciated.

[Aniela]

Thank you, Dr Geis

For both, the answer and the article.

[Aniela]

Hi, forgot to answer😇

What I was trying to say is you have to post the whole formula when asking a question like that, as it usually gives a good image about what’s going on. Also it is very helpful to share what have you tried (and didn’t work) to solve “the issue”.

In other words, nobody is inclined to waste their time guessing, so be as precise as you can, and give as many helpful details as you can.

[Aniela]

@PhilGeis Thank you, very much. I will check the colour and ask the supplier as you suggested. Now I’m going to read the article. Wishing you a good week🙂

[Aniela]

Best of luck with your deo😃

[Aniela]

Hello @PhilGeis ,

My supplier sells a liquid preservative, comprising of: aqua 55%, sodium benzoate 30%, potassium sorbate 15%; pH is 8.8-9.8.

Coming from a “natural” school, and after reading ALL comments/posts on this forum on preservatives, I might become a bit paranoid, but I feel like I want to understand everything: does your comment above applies to this combination as well? Or this combination is stable and can/does act as a preservative?

Thank you, indeed.

[Aniela]

Hi, if I were you, I would take into consideration @PhilGeis‘ comment (more so, I would ask Dr Geis for preservation advice- after I’d have put together a formula, preservative of choice included).

Also, “everything is ok” is a less-than-ok statement, as long as you didn’t perform any relevant tests- beginners and professionals alike know that most of the “nasties” can’t be seen with the naked eye.

[Aniela]

Not sure if it helps, but I’ve found this in my notes: “PPG-15 Stearyl Ether also prohibits salts from crystallizing in a formulation. PPG-15 Stearyl Ether can have some side effects such as minor skin irritation. Therefore, a patch test is recommended prior to usage.-specialchem”.

[Aniela]

Thank you.

[Aniela]

This is their guidance, Dr Geis: “The infinitely reusable bottle comes with three tablets that, once dissolved in hot water, create up to 300ml of cleansing shampoo. This is a refill. It cannot be used on its own. Before use, take your Avril refill bottle and add hot water up to the mark. Then add the 3 tablets. Leave the cap open and wait 12 hours. Close the cap and shake to mix. Your shampoo is ready to use!”

Regarding the sodium bicarbonate and the pH, they also have citric acid in there- does that make any sense?

[Aniela]

Even it is in tablet form, it is not as difficult as it looks.

I would start with a powder form- it can be pressed later in tablet form.

You just have to use enough % of surfactants, as to have in the shampoo “portion” the right ASM.

You do know the ingredients, so I suggest you analize them one by one and when it starts making sense for you, design a simple formula and take it from there.

You do not need any emulsifiers.

[Aniela]

Hello @ketchito ,

May I ask you a question, please? Maybe a silly one, but… you live, you learn😇

If Tinogard TL “protects from UV-light induced decomposition reactions and thus prevents fading or discoloration of products that are exposed to light”, does that mean that it’s action can expand beyond the product containing it? Would it bring any protection for say hair, or it will be already spent in the product?

Thank you.