[AleH]

Thanks EVchem and Pharma for your comments! The COA doesn’t mention anything about heavy metals or other impurities, but there’s surely some interaction. We tried removing the most oxidizable ingredients and then adding them one by one. Finally, we got a stable balm without carrot oil CO2 extract and a coconut extract whose composition was not so clear. I agree with the idea that ZnO could be catalyzing some reaction, we will see how the stability studies go!

[AleH]

@EVchem Did you ever find instability of your anhydrous formulations using hydrolite 5? I was reading that glycols may retard crystal formation (of the waxes for example) and by disrupting their formation, the product will lack uniformity and correct molecular packing, leading to instability, but from theory to the fact there can be a lot of difference, that’s why I’m asking

[AleH]

Thanks @LincsChemist, your comments are very helpful!
Now time to work on it! I’ll design the experiments taking into account the suggestions and see what happens. Will there be any quick way to test? If not I will ask my client for patience!
Yes, polysorbate 60 is not in the “natural” way but that gives me some ideas to try. Reviewing my notes I saw that I had already tried adding Sodium cocoyl isethionate and lauryl glucoside, improving a bit the rinsing but not the sweating of the samples. I’ll keep working on it. Thanks!

[AleH]

Thanks a lot @LincsChemist! Unfortunately, I made this formula for a client that wants a kaolin anhydrous scrub, I can’t get rid of it, she wants that “muddy” sensation, do I have any option?
Would you get rid of the emulsifier and change for waxes?
Regarding “phase separation” that’s what the stability report says, I also assumed the oils separating from the solids. Thanks again for your time!

[AleH]

Thank you so much @Perry for taking the time to answer.

I’m not understanding well why in this formulation I should balance the HLB (it is close to 200 in this case) if the idea of using the emulsifier is to structure a little and prevent the oils from leaking out of the mass, it’s not a true emulsion. Obviously this is not working, I’m missing something! I’ve seen that an emulsifier w/o such as sorbitan olivate (olivem 900) works better, I’ll try, but this has an even lower HLB so I would need to increase it with an increase in the consistency (I don’t want to change consistency).
Or would be better not to use an emulsifier and try to stabilize with a wax? in that case, it would be very difficult to remove from the skin during use 

I’m going to do the formula knockout experiments but this instability is seen after 1 month at 35°C, there will be a faster way to realize?
Thanks again!

[AleH]

No comments? is it that it’s not so clear why the instability? or that it’s a very bad formula?

[AleH]

Olivem 900 according to ISO 16128 has a NI/NOI=0/1 (natural index=0/natural origin index=1 or 100%) that should fit as a natural origin ingredient.

[AleH]

Thanks @EVchem, I’ll try to source some pentylene glycol, I appreciate it! 

[AleH]

Thanks, @Belassi and @ggpetrov I’ll keep on trying combinations following your advice!
Just a question @ggpetrov, why should I reduce butter content when using an emulsion thickener like GMS? I’m trying to get a thick cream base than can be absorbed easily, wouldn’t the wax help (not for the absorption but for consistency)?

[AleH]

Thanks @Belassi! Trying to modify and exploring the
sensorial and ingredient combinations I almost forgot the basics! I will keep
on trying combinations following your advice!

Regarding shear, I’m confused because in the Evonik formula says to add the oil
phase to the water phase without stirring, and then homogenize, I was doing
that very slowly.

What I was trying is to find a less expensive cream,  I made one with  Cetearyl Olivate, Sorbitan Olivate (Olivem 1000)
and GMS but it’s quite expensive and when lowering pH from around 8 (initial)
to 5 it gets hard and curdles after few days. If I go below 5, let’s say 4, it
losses consistency. It is dependant on GMS % I assume because of its anionic nature,
should I stay higher than pH 5,5?. In this one, I think HLB is not the problem

Phase	Ingredient (INCI name)	Quantity (%)
A	Aqua	66,00
A	Xanthan Gum	0,20
A	Glycerin	4,00
B	Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter	6,00
B	Cetearyl Olivate, Sorbitan Olivate	8,00
B	Glyceryl Monostearate	1,25
B	Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil	3,00
B	Rosa rubiginosa (seed) extract	2,00
B	Simmondsia Chinensis Seed Oil	2,50
C	Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice	0,05
C	Leuconostoc / Radish Root Ferment Filtrate, Aqua	4,00
C	Sambucus nigra Fruit Extract	2,00
C	Essential Oils	1,00
E	Lactic acid	q.s.

 

Is the process the problem? I’m struggling with GMS! I read an article saying that high shear with GMS would make less stable the formula
because it prevents the formation of the lamellar structure (Internal and
External Factors affecting the Stability of Glycerol Monostearate Structured
Emulsions. Wang et al,  RSC Adv., 2015,
5, 93108)

[AleH]

Does anyone have experience with sodium levulinate+sodium anisate? 

[AleH]

I know “natural” is a tricky and gray zone, but I have to go as close as possible! My client accepted Cetearyl Olivate, Sorbitan Olivate as an emulsifier but not Dehydroacetic acid and benzyl alcohol as a preservative, that’s why I’m looking for other alternatives.
Thanks @Agate, I will check that!

[AleH]

Thanks @ngarayeva001! Sure, I thought the higher the tocopherol the better, but make sense! I will try to reduce it! 
Any advice on other natural antioxidants?

[AleH]

Thank you @Perry!

[AleH]

Thank you @Pharma and @Perry!. Sure, I know it depends on the meaning of “natural” and on the formulation, my client wants different products and that is why I want to study the alternatives. I will have a look at Cosphatec, thanks @Pharma.
Anyway, what I want is to find a good and reliable source to know the pro and cons of each one, whether to use them or not, from an objective point of view. Do you know a reliable source where I can find that information? Thanks again!

[AleH]

helenhelen said:

@AleH My chemists tested Potassium Cetyl Phosphate in some of my samples and it eliminated the whitening but the formula was less moisturising afterwards.

thank you very much!

[AleH]

Thank you very much @helenhelen, I will try it!

[AleH]

Thanks ngarayeva001 for your answer, it’s going to be packaged in a jar, so would you suggest anyone (natural) for this formulation?

[AleH]

helenhelen said:

Hi @AleH, what emulsifier did you switch to? Did the whitening effect go away completely, or does a bit remain?

Hi @helenhelen. I added 0,2%  of Lauryl glucoside (Plantaren 1200 N UP) It improved a lot, but maybe a little bit remained…still trying things

[AleH]

Thank you! adding silicone is not an alternative for this formulation, but I changed emulsifier and got rid of olivem and it improved!