Adamnfineman
Forum Replies Created
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In manufacturing, a batch needs to have its pH raised or lowered to meet specifications. Usually, the pH adjuster is included in the formula and we simply have to add a bit more at the end. However, it does happen that a formula doesn’t have one or it contains an acid but when we measure pH it comes out too low and we need to add an alkaline pH adjuster. We often use sodium hydroxide for this as it’s cheap and we have a lot of it on hand. This would be classified as an incidental ingredient and does not need to be disclosed on the label. So there is a good chance that other products you use also contain sodium hydroxide but don’t include it on the label.
When you say salt water do you mean specifically sodium chloride? That may happen if there are other ionic ingredients in the formula that release a chloride ion when dissociating. Depending on the formula, there could many different sodium salts “formed” but the concentration would be incredibly low. I put that in parentheses because most sodium salts are soluble in water so the sodium would remain as a free floating ion unless all the water is removed.
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To answer your question, I find it highly doubtful that there could be undissolved sodium hydroxide remaining in a product. Sodium hydroxide is not added as a solid. Generally, it is dissolved in water before being added to the product to ensure it disperses quickly and allow the compounders greater precision when weighing it.
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There are many other choices. @PhilGeis has listed some of them above. Do you have any other constraints when it comes to preservatives?
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Bonjour!
Peux-tu partager ta formule complète? Si non, peux-tu partager les autres ingrédients que t’utilize? Include les spécification de pH et viscosité stp.
Ma première supposition est que tu n’as pas assez de viscosité pour suspendre ton opacifiant. Ma deuxième supposition est que ta formule a des électrolytes qui interfèrent avec la stabilité de votre opacifiant.
English:
Hello!
Could you share your complete formula? If not, could you list the other ingredients used? Include the pH and viscosity please.
My first guess is that you don’t have enough viscosity to suspend your opacifier. My second guess would be that your formula has electrolytes which interfere with your opacifier’s stability.
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Hello,
Is that 0.1% EDTA the active matter added or the amount of solution added? If it’s the latter, I would increase it to have at least 0.1% active. Also, someone correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think EHG and EDTA are enough on their own to form a robust preservative system.
When adding up the % I got 92%. Depending on what they are, 8% of additives could greatly affect your viscosity and clarity.
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I second this query. There are some interesting, borderline OTC, claims that I would love for the FDA to take a look at.
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Hi @Nils,
I work at a contract manufacturing company that has developed and produced OTCs for the US, EU, and Asia. We are based in the US and work out of an OTC approved facility following GMP guidelines. I’d love to get you in a meeting with our R&D department to discuss your product and goals.
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We need formula to help with formula.
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Hi @Ron_93,
If you’re in the market for a CM with an R&D lab to help develop this formula you can PM me and I’ll see if our company can be a good fit for you. We’re located in southern Florida and have experience formulating and manufacturing SPF products and other OTCs.
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Have you tried replicating this with other bases? I’d say make a larger batch then split it and try raising the pH with TEA, NaOH, or whatever else you might have on hand.
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<div>Hello,</div>
This oil thickener is pretty decent. We’re able to make a clear oil gel with 3.0% in vegetable oils or in mineral oil. It’s a bit pricey at about $130/kg but it gets the job done better than anything we’ve tried so far.
ulprospector.com
Oilkemia™ 5S polymer by Lubrizol - Personal Care & Cosmetics
Oilkemia™ 5S polymer is 30% solids in Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides. It is a multifunctional oil soluble rheology modifier designed to impart thickening...
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Hello,
What percent of essential oil and solubilizer are you trying to use?
Have you tried using a mix of Polysorbate 20 and PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil? We use a ratio of 1:1:1, Polysorbate 20 : PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil : Oil phase. This gives us a clear product without soaping.
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Hello,
This is quite a coincidence but Lucas Meyer just came to our company yesterday to demonstrate their emulsifiers and gelling agents. They also described how their material, Pro-Lipo Neo, can be used to encapsulate water soluble (up to 10%) or oil soluble (up to 0.2%) actives in liposomes for enhanced penetrations. They showed data from franz diffusion cell tests which claimed that this encapsulation increased the speed and depth of penetration while also reducing TEWL.
Of course there was a modest price tag of ~$300/kg. Not as much as some, but definitely more than others.
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@Pharma
I like that idea, if I ever need to do this I’ll keep that in mind. -
Pharma said:Why not freeze the excess until you need it?
I didn’t think of that but this is smarter. Having to thaw out the ingredients would be a bit annoying but I guess that’s better than having a preservative in there that might not be compatible with all formulas.
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TeslaPilot said:I’m trying to conserve usage while formulating my beginner trials.
Hello,
Are you trying to conserve your ingredients by making solutions so you can use smaller amounts when you make batches? If so this might create an issue (depending on what the ingredient dissolved is) with microbes growing in solutions if you try to store these for extended periods of time.
If you’re trying to store the solutions you might want to add a preservative to them to stop this.
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I can’t say definitively whether that would be enough because I haven’t tried and tested that combination. Maybe @PhilGeis can shed some more light on this.
I don’t know whether it’s too much as I don’t know what it is exactly. I do know that (most) extracts and peptides have little to no effect in leave-on products and even less in a rinse-off products like shampoos. What exactly are your additives? Are they being added for claims or efficacy? If efficacy, what do you expect them to do?
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I would recommend adding a preservative such as phenoxyethanol in a 1:9 EHG:PE ratio. We generally use 1% of this ratio along with 0.1% EDTA for our hair care products without issue. It’s sold as a blend by suppliers, my go to is Euxyl PE 9010.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5082626/
I do find it weird that you’re omitting 8% of the formula. Especially when based on your other comment part of that includes salicylic acid, which is notoriously finnicky.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Ethylhexylglycerin Impairs Membrane Integrity and Enhances the Lethal Effect of Phenoxyethanol
Preservatives are added to cosmetics to protect the consumers from infections and prevent product spoilage. The concentration of preservatives should be kept as low as possible and this can be achieved by adding potentiating agents. The aim of the study … Continue reading
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I think they’re referring to adding the xanthan gum slurry (assuming you’re mixing it with the glycerin) after your emulsion has been made.
Also, did you mean dimethicone? Or are you adding herbicide to your moisturizer?
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Thank you very much. It looks like I have some weekend reading to do : )
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Hi Phil,
Do you happen to know where I can read up on some of this data? A few of our products use phenoxyethanol and polysorbate-80. I was able to find another forum post when looking online but I don’t have access to any of the studies I found except the one sent by the original poster there.
Thank you for your time,
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/inactivation-of-preservatives/
chemistscorner.com
Inactivation of Preservatives - Chemists Corner
Is the inactivation of 2-phenoxyethanol by non-ionic surfactants such as polysorbate 20 or PEG-100 Stearate a very large concern even if those surfactants are used…
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Yeah that price tag has been a major hindrance. I’m interested in reading up on some niosome forming materials if you know of any blends or separate materials can be used to form them. I hadn’t even heard of niosomes until your reply.
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I haven’t had the pleasure to look into it as deeply as you have so I don’t know very much about the “normal” amount of encapsulation. I’m just regurgitating the information that was still bouncing around my brain. If you know of other, more effective liposome creating ingredients please let me know.
One of my coworkers is trying to implement Pro-Lipo Neo into a couple existing formulations. However, due to the % of active to be encapsulated he’s looking for more effective or less costly options.
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Another finishing ingredient….that takes things to a level…that is almost breathtaking…is distarch phosphate. I worked through a list of powders that can fill a room, during my deodorant project…and absolutely made a breakthrough when I came upon this Agrana product.
Hi @Graillotion ,
I’m interested in trying distarch phosphate in a moisturizing cream we’re working on. Right now, we’re using Caress BN15 (Boron Nitride) to provide a lasting silky skinfeel. I see that Agrana says this material gives a smooth and creamy texture to emulsions. I was hoping you’d take the time to answer a few questions about it.
Have you tried it in an emulsion? If so, how did it affect the texture?
How would you describe the difference the distarch phosphate made in your formula?
Which trade name of distarch phosphate did you end up using? I see there’s a handful of them and not all seem like they’d be applicable in the way I’m looking for.
Thank you for your time.