[Abdullah]

Use more glutamate instead of Glucoside
Remove Glucoside, Glycerin, butter and oil 
Reduce caprylhydroxamic acid to %0.1 or %0.15

Xanthan gum hydrates instantly

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis got it.
Wht Paraben do you recommend is Lotion and cream in combination with phenoxyethanol and hydroxyacetophenone? 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis may i ask why you are not offering that it will be effective?

Also what ratio of phenoxyethanol and methylparaben do you recommend? 

[Abdullah]

What viscosity dimethicone are you using? 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks 
Unfortunately this blend isn’t available here. I have phenoxyethanol in stock as the MOQ of each Paraben is 25kg i can only afford to purchase one of them right now to use with phenoxyethanol. 

So any suggestion about which one to purchase! 

[Abdullah]

@Henry no

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis i will take this in mind.
Thanks

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks for the information.

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis 
Have you PET generated data for its preservation effect? no. Isn’t available in our country or at least i don’t know where to do it.
Currently In order to be sure about effectiveness of my preservative system i copy popular broad spectrum blends after I find examples of this blend used in the same product that i want to use it and shows its efficacy (in this case shampoo) and then use it at maximum allowance level.

Caprylhydroxamic acid+ Glyceryl Caprylate was a copy from Inolex but when you said it is not strong enough specially in Shampoo i changed it to this one.

It is very easily soluble in surfactant. I mix it with CAPB and then add it to water. Cold process and very easily soluble.

This is the nipaquard po5 composition. 
Phenoxyethanol  %0.95
Piroctone Olamine  %0.05

And according to Clariant examples in Shampoo It kills all bacteria is 2 days and fungi in 14 days. This is at %0.5 of this preservative is shampoo formula that even doesn’t have chelating agent. 

I don’t know where did i read that “it helps cure something” does mean “it cures something” so it is not a drug claim. 
Maybe i have misunderstood. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis to make my self understand clearly. Isn’t Aspergillus niger and Aspergillus brasiliensis the same? 
Quick Google search said they are the same. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis currently i am using it only in Shampoo for preservation purpose at %0.04 with %0.8 phenoxyethanol. I use this because it is less expensive and more strong than what i previously used( %0.1 caprylhydroxamic acid+ %1 Glyceryl Caprylate). I don’t claim or expect it to help dandruff. I don’t even think that at such small quantity in a rinse off product it would help with dandruff. But i have plan for a leave on Product with small quantity of this ingredient after making completely sure that it can really help with dandruff in ≤%0.1 .

If i claim “helps with dandruff”, does it make a cosmetic Product a drug? 

[Abdullah]

@vitalys thanks

My point is this. For example

Piroctone Olamine is used @ %0.05-0.2 in leave on anti dandruff Products according to Clariant. There is also a broad spectrum preservative blend nipaquard po5 by Clariant (phenoxyethanol %0.95, Piroctone Olamine %0.05). If we use this preservative blend to protect a leave on Product itself, and even add an extra %0.05 or 0.1 Piroctone Olamine, would this Piroctone Olamine be available to kill dandruff causing yeasts on scalp of consumer after dealing and killing microbes in the Product it self?

 Or should i use another broad spectrum preservative blend to kill microbes inside the product itself and let Piroctone Olamine be available to kill yeasts on consumer scalp?

[Abdullah]

@vitalys thanks

[Abdullah]

@Perry i have a suggestion.
More of the posts and comments here are very informative but some comments from provisionals are extremely beneficial and important to remember. If that comment is in our own posts we can find them by reviewing our posts. If it was in someone else’s post them it is impossible to find that again. 

My suggestion is if you add an option to bookmark or star post’s by others that we like or specific comment on ther post’s and be able to find them later easily, that would be very helpful. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis for leav on Product i use expensive, strong but gentle preservative syetem to be sure that it will be gentle but safe.
Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl %0.2
Phenoxyethanol %0.8
Caprylhydroxamic acid %0.1
Piroctone Olamine %0.1
Salicylic acid %0.3
Ph 5-5.5

But for Shampoo, i dont want to spend to much on preservatives because my competitors usually use Formalin Which is 25x less expensive than what we use (phenoxyethanol%0.8+ Piroctone Olamine %0.04+ EDTA %0.2 pH 5-5.5).
If my preservative failed and the shampoo got contaminated, what are the most dangerous side effects that may possibly happen from using contaminated shampoo?
Dead

Blindness

Skin infections

Irritation

Or else

[Abdullah]

@vitalys @PhilGeis 
So at molecular level if a molecule of a preservative worked on and destroyed the cell membrane of a microb and killed it, would that molecule still be available there to do that with other microbes or it will not function the same anymore? 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
@PhilGeis if Burkholderia cepacia is most common then why PET doesn’t include this one? Why no supplier check or show the effectiveness of there preservative against this one? 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis preserved. My point was to blend preservative that is strongest against which organisms. 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
So Gram negative is the biggest enemy in SLES/CAPB shampoo and mould in lotion. 

[Abdullah]

Have you tried Polyglyceryl 6 distearate from Lonzo?

It can make stable emulsion at %1 use

It costs 4 times less than cetearyl Glucoside (for me)
Doesn’t need co emulsifier
Very good skin feel
very easy viscosity control.
%2 pg6 distearate with No fatty alcohol makes stable very low viscosity lotion. %1 pg6 distearate and %3 fatty alcohol makes stable cream.

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks

[Abdullah]

@MetalizeMerz thanks for sharing your thoughts.
No i haven’t noticed any difference in foam. 
Is what is this %0.2 EDTA doing? 
Should i increase it to reduce the iron availability? 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis im am referring to information in makingcosmetics website about phenoxyethanol and sodium benzoate incompatibilities. 

can you tell me the book name or the info? 

I already decided to replace HPMC with guar gum because of it’s incompatibility with phenoxyethanol in shampoo to stabilize pearlizer EGDS. 

[Abdullah]

List of ingredients with percentage of each

[Abdullah]

@Dreamer77 thanks for interesting information. 
Does PQ10 and guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride also speed up the absorption of oil? 

If yes at what percentage?