Abdullah
Forum Replies Created
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ngarayeva001 said:It won’t be stable even if you add antioxidants and keep it in freezer. Retinol is utterly unstable. I am talking about actual retinol not derivatives. Tretinoin is even worse.What makes retinol unstable?
WaterAirHeatLight
Or something else? -
Write the percentage of each ingredient. And how much money you are ready to spend?
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kconley said:I’m new to all this and I have a lot to learn. The formula is a body wash and has Decyl Glucoside (and) Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, and coca betaine as the surfactants. And it has Olive Oil PEG-7 Esters aka Olivem 300 as a solubilizer. I don’t have Olivem 300. I was wondering what I can use instead? I read I can use a Shea Water Soluble to replace the Olivem 300. It’s 3 percent of the formula. Can i use polysorbate 20? Can I make Shea Water Soluble with 50% water and 50% shea. Its a lot of work for 3% of the product. but I don’t have an alternative on hand except poly 20.
Use SLES/CAPB 3:1 and don’t to make a good shampoo. You can latter test all that other stuff to make sure that they are not working.
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PhilGeis said:Follow supplier’s choice for raw material storage. What are the drums - are they lined?
The drums are also HDPE.
What do you mean by lined? -
ngarayeva001 said:Retinol is often supplied in CCT + antioxidants
Thanks
Will it be stable if we don’t add antioxidants? -
PhilGeis said:I’m not with my colleague Abdukkah. You can not be sure the packages are “safe” unless you confirm and control the risk. That said, risk for Germall is low but, phenoxyethanol may be at risk. Package size is a critical factor.
Major guys conduct analysis of preservative in stability, and you should as well. I understand this may be too expensive for many - so look for precdent - similar products from major cosmetic guys - formula, package composition, esp. size, etc.Thanks for your information.
I currently purchase phenoxyethanol in 20kg drums, store them in original package, fill 1kg HDPE bottles from that and use from these 1kg Bottles in my products. So what materials are safest for phenoxyethanol to be stored in? -
Lotion suppliers use HDPE and PET plastics and raw material suppliers use these two for raw preservatives. Mine uses HDPE. These are the most common. So you can be sure thse two plastics are safe. Other plastics are rarely used.
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This stock of ingredients that you currently have, have you made any facewash with all of them in it without color change?
If no and some of these raw materials you have purchased recently and use it for first time then the problem may be in that particular batch of that raw material.
If yes then maybe the equipments was contaminated with something with color.
Have you made this face wash again in another (preferably clean plastic) equipment and saw if the color change or not?
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What are the complete list of your ingredients, what amount each and what is the final pH.
That way we can know what is happening. -
Decyl Glucoside is not a strong foaming. Use SLS or SLES for strong foaming and some CAPB if you want mildness. Use silicone or polyquats for conditioning.
Cleansing Products does not moisturize the skin. Use moisturizer for that purpose. -
Openion i mean
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Were you making the same product, in same equipment the same way and it didn’t change the color in the past and is changing now?
Have you changed the supplier of any ingredient?
How much EDTA are you using?
Slmi needs a good amount of chelating agent. Try %0.2 and see what happens.What material is the equipment and for how much time your face wash is in that equipment?
Facewash sometimes change color in metal equipments.Are you using any EO or fragrance oil?
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ngarayeva001 said:Dimethicone 5 isn’t volatile. It can be heated and I always add it to heated oil phase. You can’t heat cyclomethicones (D5, D6), phenyl trimethicone, and anything that’s volatile (cetiol ultimate, isododecane etc). If you do, you will notice it starts steaming. It’s pretty obvious when it happens.
Thanks, that is very good to hear.
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abierose said:ngarayeva001 said:@abierose, I don’t think they are right re dimethicone 500. It’s not too sensitive.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they are not right about that…I’ve came across a few weird/incorrect pieces of information on their site in the past ???? And when I do, I come here and ask the experts! ????
Yeah, i was surprised when i saw in there website that SLS is milder than SLES.
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jemolian said:If it doesn’t contain a volatile component, normally i add it into the heated oil phase if applicable. Sometimes they would have recommendations on processing guidelines on the tech sheet if any.
Thanks
I currently use dimethicone 5 cst at cool down phase and it work well. As adding it to oil phase would be easier i wanted to make sure that nonvolatile silicones are not heat sensitive. -
Pharma said:As an example: Eucerin in the EU can sell a product called ‘AtopiControl’ which is derived from and resembles the word ‘atopic dermatitis’, a condition for which this line has been designed. However, in Switzerland, that name is already too close to a disease’s name and hence, the name had to be truncated to ‘AtoControl’.Mind, that product range isn’t intended as drugs to treat atopic dermatitis but as supplemental care for that and related skin conditions. Depending on regulations/country, this alone is already a tabu for cosmetics.
Thanks
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MarkBroussard said:@Abdullah
I understand your motivation, but the regulations are clear in this regard. If your product is not an OTC, then you can’t use the dissease name associated with your product in any way. Some companies take the chance hoping that the FDA will not become aware of the violation and fly under the radar until they get a violation notice.
The DermaHarmony product you are referencing above is indeed an OTC-registered product. They list Active Ingredient: 2% Salicylic Acid, so they are in compliance.
I got the point.
Thanks -
MarkBroussard said:Why would you be putting the name of a skin condition (ie: disease) as part of the name of your product if not with intent to deceive consumers?
Reminds me … I need to dust that formula for Covid Cola off the shelf!
Because my product actually works for that skin condition (eczema) but as a startup company i don’t want the complications of being a drug manufacturer.
It is the same reason as Paula’s choice that doesn’t claim acne treatment with %2 salicylic acid liquid at pH 3.5 but another company claim’s that in a soap with %2 salicylic acid at whatever pH that soap is.
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MarkBroussard said:@Graillotion
I have no idea and did not really investigate regarding specific ingredients. I noticed that my hands started peeling quite badly and thought that perhaps Tresemme was the issue. Switched to Dove Creamy Sensitive Skin Body wash and the peeling went away. Tried Tresemme again and the peeling came back. Switched back to Dove and the peeling stopped. I did not notice any irritation on my scalp, interestingly enough.
I am very interested to see the ingredients list of these two products. Can you share them please.
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I will go for A.
When we apply a cream to our skin we want it to do something. When we touch it and feel it on our skin after two hours we think that cream is still there and doing it’s job. If we don’t feel it’s existence we would think its not there anymore and not doing anything anymore.
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RedCoast said:TEWL reduction: it depends.Mainly, it depends whether there’s a wound involved, bodily location (hands, feet, face, etc), and environmental factors, like the moisturizer being washed off.@Abdullah, what location were you thinking of specifically? Face? Feet? Or a “general” or “all-over” moisturizer?
For face i think an occlusive agent capable of reducing TEWL by %30 or %40 would be enough. But for hand and foot i don’t know how much TEWL reduction should we aim.
I have a lotion with %5 petrolatum. Works very good for hand and foot. But for face the same lotion without petrolatum feels better. -
Valentyna said:Abdullah said:At what percentage have you used geogard ECT and how old is your son?
I also don’t like benzyl alcohol on my skin.
You can use a blend of phenoxyethanol with other preservatives.
Hi @Abdullah, I have used it at its max percentage recommended by a supplier which is 1%. It is terrible. my son is 3.5 y/o and he absolutely hated the cream preserved with Geogard. It would make him cry. What other preservatives would you recommend? I have not worked with phenoxyethanol before. Is it a preservative itself or more like a booster?
Geogard ECT has salicylic acid and in EU it is not allowed in leave on products for children of 3 years old and below. Maybe that is irritating your child.
If you can write your whole formula we would know what else is in there. geogard ECT is not very effective at pH 6. So maybe it is contaminated.
Skin pH is 4.7. the skin pH of people with eczema is higher than that. You should aim to bring the pH of his skin down by applying low pH products. Why would you want to have a product with pH 7 and increase the pH of his skin even more?
I make leave on products at pH 4-4.5 and they work better than same product at pH 5-5.5.
Even a cream with pH 2.8 which is very acidic is better than a cream with pH 7.4 according to This Data.
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jemolian said:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352647518300133Just some relevance for the table, but personally i think the TEWL percentage is mainly theoretical unless you have in vivo testing done. The main thing is that the TEWL reduction with occlusives should be designed based on the type of product you are formulating for the intended customer demographic. If the intended demographic don’t need a highly occlusive product, then there’s no particular need to really think too much about it. It’s more important to get the end user feedback.
Yes TEWL reduction should be designed differently according to consumer need but how much TEWL reduction do people need?
For example i saw in a study that a healthy skin loses 500ml water via TEWL daily. It means TEWL for healthy skin is natural and may be important. So is %100 TEWL reduction necessary?Isn’t it even harmful long-term? -
abierose said:@Abdullah you really do ask the best questions! I have wondered this very same thing for quite some time.
I found a lot of interesting articles and publications on TEWL but nothing that specifically answers your question. However I did find a publication about Stratum Corneum Hydration as it relates to TEWL…below is a link to that as well as a screenshot of some of the article…I don’t know if any of this will be helpful but I am hoping someone can answer your question because I am interested in knowing this as well.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/srt.12711
Thanks for the link