Abdullah
Forum Replies Created
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@abierose my mistake. I mean marketing.
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5cs and above that is not volatile. Below 5 is volatile.
By the way, which book is this?
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@abierose wow
Today i learned a lot about importance of marking from your comment.
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@Perry thanks
What is the purpose of using petrolatum in hair products?Is it used in hair or scalp?
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@Perry how about petrolatum for hair?
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@Bill_Toge thanks
Are all pure essential oils clear or some of them like lavender?
I did purchase some vetiver EO and it is also like oil and not clear.Is there any way to check to make sure if it is emulsion or pure eo?
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It is %30 Glucoside and %70 alcohols
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@ngarayeva001 they convert salicylic acid to sodium salicylate
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Yes these are strong preservatives. At that time i was using geogard 221 which is not very strong as these two and not very water soluble.
Wish you success.
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@Paprik yes
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Some times we do something because we like it or because we can’t do otherwise. I did the same. I liked Glyceryl Caprylate as preservative because it had natural name, was mild and inexpensive. Although I knew it is not very effective Preservative, i was hopping that someone tell me it is a robust Preservative. Change is the best thing we can do.
I bet if you make the Product one phase, it would be more effective with less cost and you would like it.
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emma1985 said:I’m not sure what you mean by in expense of quality. This product is an intentionally bi-phase product using high quality ingredients. It’s not a failed emulsion. There is no emulsifier.
I mean you add each ingredient at certain percentage to work best. If the percentage changes during use they will not have that effect any more. For example if you use %4 Glycerin and that work best, if that change to %2 or %8 that will not be the same as %4 in effectiveness of feeling.
If the consumer can use the Product without any effort, need to shake several times in each application is a minus point.
No emulsifier mean your product will be water thin and runny. Who prefer a runny Product over some viscosity?
You will not be able to use a lot of good ingredient like butters, waxes, allantoin, petrolatum, etc.
You use %50 oil phase because you know the bad thing is going to happen. That also increase your cost. I use %10 oil phase, it works well and no worries.You use %50 oil, that would not make a noticable difference if it change to %90 or %10. what about ingredients that are used at small amounts and make a difference? They will have negative effects like less efficacy or irritation if percentage increased or decreased. Ingredients like preservatives, AHA/BHA, retinol, perfume, etc.
For how much time have you used such Products and how many bottles that you are saying the ratio changes from 50/50 to 40/60? I have used my such (failed) Products for years and i know if you don’t use emulsifier the oil and water separate in seconds not even minutes and at the ends of 100g bottle there always is only water phase left.
For your preservatives, can you tell how much do you use. I need to see how it will work. When i recalled my bi phase Products the preservation system didn’t work for more than a month or two no matter what and for stable versions i have samples from 2 years ago that are fine. Same formula and same amount of same preservative.
Separated phase is better that than no emulsifier. At least they will remain mixed a few minutes after shaking.
Droppers will be worse because the amount inside the dropper will not mix with rest of it when you shake the bottle.
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@EVchem thanks for sharing your experience.
If i mix surfactants first and then add it to thickened water phase with gum the final viscosity is higher than if add surfactants one by one to gum thickened water phase.I don’t notice any difference in performance
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You can add NACL to o/w emulsion and make it unstable and call it bi phase. Or don’t use any emulsifier and call it bi phase.
What i want to know is that are you making bi phase Product in expense of the quality because it is a trend or it has any benefit too that stable emulsion doesn’t have?
I have made several bi phase Products in my practices not by intention but because i wasn’t able to stabilize the emulsions as @PhilGeis said. And in my experience the composition of ingredients will be different at the beginnings and ends of the bottle and you can feel it. At beginning what you are using will have more of the oil phase ingredients and at the end it will have more of water phase ingredients.
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@Paprik the gum doesn’t mix correctly in surfactant solutions as i have experienced.
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@chemicalmatt so hard water will help the deposition for conditioners like Amodimethicone. Did i get your point?
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@Perry thanks.
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@Perry i wanted to use it for skin benefit, not just claim. Looks i should go to tocopherol.
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Apply them in form of leave on Product. That way the benefits would be much better. And you would see if they really do any benefit or not.
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@MarkBroussard thanks
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@MarkBroussard So if i add %10 tocopheryl acetate in a Product it would be like %0.6 tocopherol. Am i correct?
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As @Perry said This formula isn’t following proper labeling rules and i think this product doesn’t have any of these ingredients except surfactants and conditioner.
It also doesn’t have water on it’s list ????
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Aziz said:Abdullah said:For large batch you can heat only 20x water than HPMC and mix. For example if you use %0.3 HPMC, mix with %6 of heated water and then add to cold water if your system is cold process and you want to save money and time by not heating %1/3 of water phase
I am new to use HPMC. I want to know what is the effect of other thickners like NaCl, CAPB, CDEA ,GDS, etc when thicken with HPMC . How much I can reduce them ? Please share your experience.
HPMC is a thickner. By adding this you will need less of other thickners. How much? That depends on entire formula and how much viscosity you want
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That is good as @MarkBroussard said.
In your serum one phase is water and water soluble ingredients. What is in another phase?
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Glyceryl Caprylate may not be stable at low pH like 3.9